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Holy spandex tights! It’s Batgirl!

Nearly 50 years later, Yvonne Craig reflects on ‘Batman,’ ‘Star Trek,’ Elvis and more

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Batgirl Craig, gay news, Washington Blade

Yvonne Craig was brought on to play Batgirl in the show’s third season. (Photo courtesy Craig)

Sometimes indelible pop culture impressions are made in a very short time. Yvonne Craig played Batgirl for just one season — the third and final — of the 1966-’68 TV series “Batman,” yet it’s the role she’s best known for nearly 50 years later.

And although the character appeared once on the big screen (in the oft-derided 1997 movie “Batman & Robin” in which she was portrayed by Alicia Silverstone), it is Craig, by far, who is most identified with the role.

Craig, 77, was a steadily working actress throughout the 1960s and beyond racking up appearances on “Perry Mason,” “The Barbara Stanwyck Show,” “My Three Sons,” “The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis” and — donning head-to-toe green body paint — as Marta, an Orion slave girl, in the classic “Star Trek” episode “Whom Gods Destroy.”  She also played opposite Elvis Presley in two feature films — “It Happened at the World’s Fair” (1963) and “Kissin’ Cousins” (1964). She was brought on “Batman” for the 1967-’68 season to play Commissioner Gordon’s librarian daughter Barbara whose alter ego Batgirl could be counted on to ward off villains with Batman (Adam West) and Robin (Burt Ward).

After years of legal wrangling, the series was finally released on DVD and Blu-ray last November. That was our initial peg for reaching out to Craig, but several delays including gall bladder surgery for the otherwise-healthy actress, pushed things back. We spoke to her by phone from her Los Angeles home two weeks ago. Quick to laugh and always ready to launch into a funny anecdote, Craig — who’s straight and happily married — was willing to indulge any inquiry. Her comments have been edited for length.

Batgirl, gay news, Washington Blade

Yvonne Craig says she enjoys meeting fans though she has rarely watched ‘Batman’ or ‘Star Trek’ since their original broadcasts. (Photo courtesy Craig)

WASHINGTON BLADE: Have you lived most of your adult life in Los Angeles?

YVONNE CRAIG: Yes. We moved up to Nevada, to south Lake Tahoe, about three years ago and we moved back last year and I’m so grateful to be back. You can only look at so many trees and eventually you say, “Where’s the classical music? Where’s the ballet company? Where’s the art museum?” Well, they’re not there.

BLADE: Let’s start with “Star Trek.” Sci-fi fans in general are often so ardent and you had such a major role on one of the most famous episodes of the iconic original series yet I’m sure for you at the time, it was just another job. What’s it like when you meet fans and they assume you’re going to be a walking encyclopedia of “Star Trek” ephemera?

CRAIG: Well, it’s been lovely for me and I loved the part. I did a convention where a young woman came up to my room to walk me down to where I was supposed to do a Q&A and I said to her, “There are so many weird people here,” and she said, “We’re all weird, we’re all misfits and the reason we like this is because we can all get together and understand one another and it’s the only place we’re really accepted by our peers.” And I thought, “Wow, that’s really insightful.” … I’ve always liked the fans and they’ve been charming to me. It’s just when they come up and say to me, “Do you remember the third rock on the left in the such and such,” and I say to them, “You know what? I’ve only seen two ‘Star Treks.’ One was mine and the other was ‘The Trouble with Tribbles,’” you know, the furry little things. (I’m told) “Whom Gods Destroy” is the second most popular episode after “Trouble with Tribbles.”

BLADE: Was it hard to relax between takes with the green body paint?

CRAIG: No, but getting it off at night was a disaster. I started with a shower at the studio, then I had to go home and take an oil bath, then take another shower. I think if I were doing it today, I would have just slept very carefully somewhere at the studio.

Yvonne Craig as Marta on 'Star Trek.' (Photo courtesy Craig)

Yvonne Craig as Marta on ‘Star Trek.’ (Photo courtesy Craig)

BLADE: Aren’t you glad you didn’t have to play her for several seasons?

CRAIG: Oh, wouldn’t that be horrible? We also had trouble making it stick during the day. We were at our wits’ end and it’s like the fourth day and finally … we found a makeup guy who could make it stick. He wasn’t really supposed to do it because at the time male makeup artists were not allowed to put body makeup on women, but I didn’t care. We brought him in and sure enough, he did the last two days and it never moved. It was great but we never told because he could have been fired. It’s so sexist I can’t believe it.

BLADE: Have you followed the various “Batman” film adaptations over the years? Do you have much interest in that?

CRAIG: Yes, I do. I liked Michael Keaton. I just loved him but in the second one, he got stuck with the Penguin and it had, like, six endings. You think it’s over and the Penguin is gone and he would come back spitting ink again. So I just knew immediately why when Michael Keaton said he’s not doing anymore, I knew immediately why. Who wants to be second banana to a penguin? … I thought George Clooney was just going to be terrific … and I thought Chris O’Donnell … would be a good match … then you get to the movie and it’s just awful. I don’t know what was going on, if George Clooney was just doing too many things at the same time so he didn’t think this out or something. Every time they mentioned that Alfred was ill, no Alfred isn’t just sick, Alfred is going to die, he just had this smirk. I’m like, “What’s funny about that? This is the man who brought you up, what is going on?” And then Chris O’Donnell just kept whining about a car and I thought, “God, I hate this movie.” I actually thought Alicia Silverstone would just be darling as Batgirl and I wrote her a note and said, “You’ll just knock ‘em dead.” … First of all, they made her whole relationship she was Alfred’s niece or something instead of Commissioner’s daughter, which was screwy, then they put them all in these Robocop outfits so they couldn’t even move, it was horrible. I didn’t like Val Kilmer but once they got Christian Bale, I loved it. I mean I really like him. He’s an excellent actor. So yeah, I keep up with them.

BLADE: They’ve gotten so dark. Why?

CRAIG: Well, when we first started there were people who remembered the (serial) films from the 1940s or whenever they did them and that was dark. So I think they are kind of of their time. We were busy being hippies and throwing flowers and love and peace and all of that and people were offended. They said, “This isn’t what Batman should be.” Those were the diehard ones. Now they’re all dead because it was a long time ago. The one with Michael Keaton, I thought was pretty dark and a couple of times you couldn’t see who was fighting whom, so you weren’t invested. If you can’t see who the villains are and who the good guys are, you lost interest. Then they got lighter for a while but our times have changed. I think we’re going back to dark because these are darker times. We have drive-by shootings and terrorists with no conscience. So I don’t know what the next thing might look like but I bet it will be scary.

BLADE: I guess “Batman v. Superman” (slated for 2016 release) is next.

CRAIG: Oh is it? Well, I may have to see that one.

BLADE: Should Batgirl be in it too? Do you feel any investment in these things as you hear of them?

CRAIG: No. I loved doing the role. I liked the way the writers wrote her. When people come up and say she was a role model, I always think, “Wow, I wish I had one of the writers next to me to hear this” because they’re really the ones who wrote this. Everybody forgets that the actor can only do anything with what they’re given. Writers never get the esteem they should have.

BLADE: Yes, but so many of the actors on the ‘60s show really became synonymous with the parts. When we think of the Riddler, we think of Frank Gorshin, we think of Cesar Romero (the Joker), we think of you as Batgirl and of Julie Newmar and Eartha Kitt as Catwoman. Why did that series have such impact?

CRAIG: Well it was a top-rated show and nothing had ever been seen before that looked quite like that. It was really a comic book that was live action so you saw “bam” and “pop” and all of those things you saw in a comic book. The colors were brilliant and they had this crazy thing where when the villain entered the camera was tilted. So it was innovative and unique for its time. There were a lot of things only the adults would have understood, double entendres, … yet it was safe to watch with kids because it wasn’t violent. You’re not seeing body parts and blood and guts and people shoot one another. … As far as being attached, I was only in the third season and I had a body of work before and I didn’t have a problem at all doing other things. I think Adam (West) was a whole other story because he has a very distinctive speech cadence. (Imitates West) “That’s just the way he talked — (pauses) — citizens.” When he’d go read for other parts, they just thought he was doing Batman so he had a hard time getting hired. … Now he’s doing voiceovers and it’s working for him again and I like that. He’s a nice man.

BLADE: Was the costume stretchy?

CRAIG: It was. I was used to being in leotards, so it was perfect for me. … It was easy to work in, easy to get in and out of and I did stunts, so it was easy to dance in, kick in and all those things. I had no problem with it. Lee Meriwether (Catwoman briefly in 1966) and I were on a panel together once and she said that was the most uncomfortable costume she has ever worn and it was kind of the same as mine, that same stretch fabric. I think it just has to do with whether you were used to wearing leotards or not and I was.

BLADE: Did you keep anything, the costume or any props or anything?

CRAIG: No, because it didn’t belong to me.

BLADE: That was your own hair as Barbara?

CRAIG: Yes. I told them I didn’t mind being a redhead as long as it was a wig, which it was and you saw it very prominently displayed in her secret room. A friend of mine at the time wanted to set me up with this guy. I was single then. She told him, “She plays Batgirl.” And he said, “Oh, well I like the little brunette better.” And I thought, “Oh he’s too dumb to go out with.”

BLADE: Was it a fairly chummy set?

CRAIG: Oh yes, the happiest set I’d been on since “Mod Squad.” … It was terrific. The cast liked one another, the crew liked one another and we all loved having all of these people on we’d never have worked with otherwise. I never would have worked with Milton Berle or Ethel Merman (otherwise). And they all loved it too because it was so different from anything else they’d ever done. It was a happy place to go to work every day.

BLADE: Burt’s (Robin) memoir was quite interesting.

CRAIG: Yes. I think he had a very vivid fantasy life.

BLADE: His (“Boy Wonder: My Life in Tights”) was quite different from yours (“From Ballet to the Batcave and Beyond”).

CRAIG: It was. He had asked me to write the foreword for his. I said sure, send it to me. He never did. He’d call and read me funny things and finally we were getting tight on time. I was leaving the country and he said he needed it so I sent him something that said, “I have not read this book.” (“Batman” writer) Stanley Ralph Ross said, “You can’t write a foreword to a book you haven’t read,” so I read the book and it was just relentlessly sexual. Even if it were true and it wasn’t, nobody wants to think of their little Robin as this voracious satyr. … I know there are different takes on things, but I can tell you truly in the third season, nothing happened on that set, nothing. And I can almost guarantee you nothing happened the first two seasons either. Now what they did when they were out on the road, I have no idea but as far as it happening on the set — he claimed he was behind scenery — but we were there working, they had somebody building on the next set we were going to use and we had stunt people, including me, off in a corner trying to figure out the fight scene. We shot those in three days. I mean it was just gangbusters, go! So I don’t know where he found the space or the time and I never saw any of it. … Plus we had children visiting the set almost every day.

BLADE: Would you have continued on another three or four seasons had it been renewed?

CRAIG: I would have. I loved doing it.

BLADE: How far into the season were you when you heard it wasn’t being renewed?

CRAIG: We had a wrap party for the third season and we all went home thinking we would be picked up and only when it was time to start shooting again did I hear we weren’t. So we never really had an over party. We just went home for Thanksgiving or Christmas or one of those and we didn’t know. And of course, we didn’t know 50 years later people were still going to be talking about it. We just said, “OK, on to the next job. What else do you have lined up for me?” because that’s the way the business runs.

BLADE: Alan Napier (Alfred) said once that Eartha Kitt (Catwoman on the third season) was “kind of marvelous” but complained a lot on the set. Agree?

CRAIG: I don’t know. In the scenes I had with her, she wasn’t complaining at all. She was a woman, oh boy, who was I would say rather conflicted and very insecure so who knows, she might have complained and he might have heard her or he might have had more down time sitting with her than I did because usually when I wasn’t shooting, I was off with the stunt people. But no. One time we did some kind of reunion-type thing and my husband was excited to meet her and she was just so nervous about doing this, I don’t know, it was like a talk show or something. And she said, “I’m sorry, I can’t meet him, I can’t meet anyone, I have to get myself together for this.” And I thought, “How strange — this is just a talk show.” But you know, her background was not wonderful. I can see it. You’re black, you’re in America, you purportedly said something not very nice to the first lady (Lady Bird Johnson). I didn’t see anything wrong with what she said, she was just asking a question. But you know, it probably adds up.

BLADE: I know you didn’t work with Julie Newmar (Catwoman, first two seasons) on the show but you’ve made appearances with her at various events since then. Have you gotten to know her at all?

CRAIG: Not really. At the conventions she’s done, she always arrives late but she has a great work ethic. Somebody said to her one day, “OK, Julie, so when you get up, what do you do?” And she said (slipping into Newmar’s purry voice) “Well — pauses — I put on a little makeup — pauses — and then I have some coffee …” And I figured, “OK, well, that’s why she’s always late,” but I’ll tell you what, she’s wonderful with the fans and she will stay until the last person sees her. There are a lot I could mention who don’t do that, so I think she and I have the best work ethic of the group.

BLADE: It was obviously such intentional camp. You seemed to play it very earnestly. Was it hard to find the right tone with the material?

CRAIG: No. I played it completely straight and that’s the clue. I think if the material is completely over the top, you play it straight and that makes it funny for the audience. If you play it with a wink, then it isn’t funny. This tends to happen a lot with child actors.

BLADE: Were you happy to see it finally released?

CRAIG: Yes. We don’t get any residuals or anything because, of course, there was no such thing as DVDs back then. I probably won’t watch it, but I’m glad to see it out. I live in the present and I don’t look back other than to say, “Well, that was a wonderful experience,” and if it weren’t a wonderful experience, as in the case of, say, Bill Shatner (Kirk on “Star Trek”), who I don’t think ever allowed anyone to have a wonderful experience with his acting, I just feel we only have a certain amount of time and I don’t want to spend it looking back.

BLADE: I saw a photo not long ago of you with Bill Bixby (“The Incredible Hulk”) and you were in a bathing suit. What was that from?

CRAIG: We were on “Courtship of Eddie’s Father” and “My Favorite Martian” together but I was never in a bathing suit. In those days, God, I sound like such a codger, they had Photoplay and these fan magazines, so they would set up these photo shoots. One time Adam took me out on his boat and we took pictures but it was just for photos, I had never been on his boat before or after.

BLADE: But you and Bill were friendly?

CRAIG: We dated! … We remained friends, but it just wasn’t a good match.

BLADE: They kept casting you as different girlfriends of Dobie Gillis. Did that seem odd to you at the time?

CRAIG: I don’t remember thinking that. I think I just thought, “Oh, I get to play somebody new.” Dwayne Hickman (Dobie) still cracks me up. My husband doesn’t understand it. He looks at me and says, “He’s not that funny,” and I just say, “To me, he is.” It’s like George Burns or Jack Benny. All I have to do is look at Dwayne and I laugh. I did four “Dobies,” I think. It’s really weird when I tell people who all I worked with. Once I even worked with (silent screen legend) Francis X. Bushman on (“Dobie” episode) “The Flying Millicans.” He played my father. He had this long gray hair and we were trapeze artists. To think that I actually worked with somebody who was in silent films!

BLADE: Lynda Carter said once that DC Comics reached out to her when they were going to change the Wonder Woman costume. Have they ever lent you any sort of Batgirl emeritus status or consulted you on anything over the years?

CRAIG: No, not at all.

BLADE: Both “Star Trek” and “Batman” were modest hits during their original runs but went crazy in syndication and ran forever. Any theories on why?

CRAIG: I honestly couldn’t tell you. I haven’t the foggiest idea. We only went three seasons and we were a mid-season replacement so it wasn’t even like they were long seasons. Some of those Westerns went on for like 22 years or something crazy.

BLADE: Like “Gunsmoke.”

CRAIG: Yes. And I hated doing Westerns.

BLADE: Did you do many?

CRAIG: Oh yeah, a whole slew of ‘em. “Wagon Train,” “Bronco.” As long as the horse hits his mark, they don’t care what you say. They figure, “OK, the horse is in place, she’s up there, we can always loop it.” It’s all predicated on a horse.

BLADE: Do you see any homoerotic subtext in Batman and Robin, either on the show or in any other incarnation?

CRAIG: I never really felt there was. I think a lot of people who were reading into that were not gay. It’s the homophobes who would say, “You know, an older man, I bet he’s diddling that kid.” People who do not understand homosexuality at all.

BLADE: Did you have a favorite villain?

CRAIG: Oh yes, Vincent Price (Egghead). Not because of the villainy, but any time you had down time with Vince Price, he was just wonderful. He was bright, he was curious, he had a great sense of humor, he knew a lot about art, he knew a lot about ballet. He was just very well informed and you knew he kept up.

BLADE: Did you know he was gay at the time?

CRAIG: Yes.

BLADE: How did you feel when you heard Elvis had died?

CRAIG: Oh dear. Well first, he was just the sweetest man. He was so polite and he took all this unsolicited advice from me, what he should do with his hair, crazy stuff like that. … When he died, the Dallas Morning News called me up, I was seeing my future husband at the time, and this reporter said (slipping into exaggerated Southern accent), “How did you feel when Elvis died, were you just devastated?” I said, “Well, no, because I think dead is really a thing just like alive except you have less choices to make.” And there was this dead silence. Finally she said, (returning to accent), “OK, well thank you very much.” He said to me, “Nobody understands what you mean when you say that,” and I just said, “Well, that’s her problem.” I was sorry he died so young. There’s a group up in San Francisco that are just huge Elvis fans. They have his leading ladies up to talk and I’ve been there and then they have an impersonator come out. When I was there, it was Elvis Herselvis, this rather fat, gay woman. She does a wonderful job.

BLADE: Have you kept much career memorabilia?

CRAIG: No, nothing. When I did the book, all the photos were from fans who’d sent them to me at one time or another. When Capital Cities bought ABC, they sent me a whole stack of pictures they were just going to otherwise throw away and said, “Do you want them?” But that was it. I don’t keep stuff. I probably don’t have much of a sentimental bone in my body.

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Rehoboth author’s new book tackles love, loss, and the allure of P-town

Will Freshwater’s series concludes with ‘The Dark Horse’

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Author Will Freshwater’s new book ‘The Dark Horse’ is out now.

For those of us who have experienced the allure of Provincetown, there’s no mystery about why author Will Freshwater set his series of three books there. 

It’s not just about the scenic, remote location, or the many fine restaurants and spirited bars and nightclubs and theme weekends. Not just the picturesque harbor and its famed magical light. It’s about a shared sense of community unique among LGBTQ destinations.

Freshwater, whose latest book “The Dark Horse” is out now, lives in Rehoboth Beach, Del., with his husband Stephen Cremen. And although Rehoboth became home after Freshwater retired from a career as a corporate attorney at Verizon in 2021, P-town always beckons. He first visited during the height of the AIDS crisis.

“I don’t think we’ll ever experience anything like that again,” he said. “The community welcomed anyone who showed up on the ferry looking for love and support; it was a transformative experience.”

Freshwater’s parents worried that he’d never find a “normal,” happy life as a gay man, but P-town put those fears to rest.

“I saw people who were plenty happy and living lives that were what they wanted to be,” he recalls. “I had never been able to hold my boyfriend’s hand and walk down the street; young people can’t conceptualize that. It felt like home for me … it felt welcoming, a warm place where I could be myself.” 

So, naturally, the protagonist in his series of books, John Wells, travels to P-town from D.C. to find himself. 

The first book in the Provincetown series, “Favorite Son,” is a familiar read to any gay man of a certain age who worked on the Hill in the 1990s — the sting of the closet, the need to be the best at work, and the chance meetings of romantic partners while riding the Metro. The story of John Wells, a senior Hill staffer, takes a turn after tragedy sends him reeling to P-town to heal. 

The second book in the series, a prequel titled “The Light Reflected,” takes readers back in time when the main characters — all gay men — are in their 20s. Freshwater says it wasn’t a conscious decision to write a prequel, but that it evolved out of wanting to show younger readers what life was like for gays at that time.

“We did stupid stuff and made stupid mistakes and ran away,” he said. “As a reader I often want to know what made a character a certain way. I was aware of my audience and in my generation I had the older mentors that shared our history and they died; I wanted readers to see what it’s like for these characters to be in their 20s not just their 30s. I wanted to give that perspective to younger readers because I don’t know how they’re going to experience that if not through books.” 

The new book, “The Dark Horse,” finds the characters Danny and Peter/John in domestic life in Boston where Danny runs the family business. Everyone is feeling restless and a bit miserable. 

“It’s about what happens after the fairy tale,” Freshwater said. 

The book also confronts the issue of unresolved feelings for past boyfriends, which takes the characters back to Provincetown. There’s a shocking plot twist at the end of the second book, an unexpected ending for the romance genre, that is resolved to satisfaction in the final book. 

“You won’t know until the final four pages of the book how it resolves,” he notes.

This is the shortest book in the series and Freshwater says it took just 11 months to complete, compared to six years for the first book and eight years for the second book.

“There’s a great sense of closure and I can always visit these characters but I’m excited to move on and do new things.” 

Indeed, Freshwater is working on several new projects, including a book set in Rehoboth that he’s co-writing with a friend, the gay romance author B.J. Irons. Freshwater is writing one character, a Rehoboth local who manages an inn on Baltimore Avenue and wants to “break out of his shell.” Irons is writing the other main character, a developer from Los Angeles who moves to Rehoboth to open a large resort across the street from the inn. The book explores their friendship and business rivalry. 

Rehoboth became home for Freshwater and Cremen thanks largely to the pandemic.

“I’d been coming here since age 3 because it was the closest beach to Pittsburgh,” he said. “When I was in law school I got introduced to a guy who had a house on the beach between Rehoboth and Dewey so I used to come down a lot in the mid-1990s and became hooked.” 

The couple bought a house in Rehoboth in 2018 and split their time between there and a home in New Jersey. 

“When the pandemic started, we went to Rehoboth for two weeks thinking it would all blow over quickly and then never went back.”

 The couple began questioning their stressful lifestyle of maintaining two homes and corporate jobs. So they sold the New Jersey house and moved full time to Rehoboth in 2021. 

In addition to the new book, Freshwater is writing a children’s book using the classic “Velvet Rage” as inspiration. It features a puppy with a pink spot on his cheek while all the others in the litter have a black spot. The dog wears a mask to conceal his difference, but when it comes out everyone accepts him.

“It thematically speaks to not hiding who you are,” he said.

Freshwater offers sound advice to aspiring writers struggling to find their voice and overcome writer’s block.

“It always starts with an idea or character or theme and then you develop a broad outline and then work your butt off,” he said. “Decide when you’re going to write and make a commitment that you’re going to do it, like an athlete who commits to practice every day from 3:30-5:30. Don’t wait for inspiration, just commit to writing every day, and then edit, edit, edit until it feels like what’s inside your head.”

 The new book is self published because Freshwater craved creative freedom. 

“I’m not sure what traditional publishers have to offer anymore,” he said, “like YouTube for musicians, if you’ve got what you think is a high quality manuscript, put it out there and it will generate a following.” 

Freshwater will read from “The Dark Horse” at an event on Saturday, March 23, 5-7 p.m. at Top of the Pines (56 Baltimore Ave., Rehoboth Beach). His books are available at Amazon and anywhere books are sold. 

(Amazon screenshot)
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‘Tiger’ burning bright: an interview with Mary Timony

Today’s female-driven music scene wouldn’t be the same without her

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Mary Timony is back with a new album. (Photo by Chris Grady)

It’s hard to imagine what the current female-driven music scene would be like without Mary Timony. From Sleater-Kinney to Haim, from Angel Olsen to Mitski, the influence of Mary Timony is in every note being played, every word being sung. On her new solo album, “Untame The Tiger” (Merge), with its sly nod to Joni Mitchell, Timony has brought her many years of musical experience to the fore, resulting in what is easily her most accessible release. Beginning with the incredible six-plus minute opener “No Thirds” and continuing through the first single, “Dominoes,” and gorgeous numbers including “The Guest,” “The Dream,” and “Not The Only One,” Timony is assured to keep listeners purring along. Timony made time for an interview shortly before the album was released.

BLADE: Mary, I’d like to begin by talking to you about your musical lives in D.C. and Boston. I went to college in Boston in the early 1980s and was constantly amazed by the bands of the era such as Mission of Burma, Human Sexual Response, and ‘Til Tuesday. I moved to D.C. in the mid-1980s to go to grad school, and at the time, the music scene there was dominated by go-go music, and a smaller indie music featuring BETTY and the late Tommy Keene, among others. What do you remember about the music in D.C. as someone who grew up there?

MARY TIMONY: That’s interesting. We kind of did a switcheroo. I’m from D.C. and I moved to Boston. (In D.C.) I learned, as a teenager, about rock shows and rock music from being involved in the punk scene, the post-hardcore scene of kids here. Those are the shows I went to in high school. Basically, the Dischord (Records) bands and stuff. I saw every single Fugazi show from when they started in ’87. Before that, whatever was happening in 1985, hardcore shows by Swiz and Soulside and Kingface and I loved Ignition. Other than that, I would go see bluegrass out in Virginia and I loved go-go. I would go to see (go-go bands) Rare Essence and Trouble Funk. I was very into that stuff; that was really exciting. I think I liked go-go the most out of all of it, actually [laughs]. I would go to DC Space and 9:30 (Club), mostly for local (acts). I don’t think I ever saw BETTY, but I was a teenager then.

BLADE: Was the active music scene in Boston in the early 1990s part of the appeal for you when it came to relocating to Boston to attend Boston University?

TIMONY: The reason why I went there was because I wanted to go to a music program that was in a big university, in case I didn’t wanna study music the whole time, which is exactly what happened. I studied classical guitar for a year and then I didn’t really like the program much, so I transferred to study English. I found out about the (Boston) music scene from friends. We went to The Middle East (nightclub) and TT’s (T.T. The Bear’s nightclub). Then after college, I ended up living right down the street from The Middle East and I was there constantly.

BLADE: Good old Central Square! As a performer playing in bands including Autoclave, Helium, and Ex Hex, and as a solo artist with her own band, it’s not unreasonable to say that Mary, you are someone who plays well with others. 

TIMONY: [Big laugh.]

BLADE: What makes you such a good team player?

TIMONY: I didn’t know I was [laughs]. I’ve gone back and forth between doing solo stuff and being in bands. Mostly, I’ve done projects where I’ve written a bunch of songs and I’m trying to…I haven’t done a ton of collaborative stuff really. Ex Hex was fun because it was more collaborative. Wild Flag, the same thing, totally 100% collaborative in every way. But Helium was really my thing, but I got some great people that totally influenced it. I’ve always been doing my own thing but tried to find really good people. Music really is about connection. It’s never as good if it’s only one person’s vision. Usually, if it’s good it’s good because of the connection between the musicians. Music is a social art form, I think.

BLADE: “Untame The Tiger” is the title of your new album. In 1999, Joni Mitchell titled her album “Taming The Tiger.” Are you, in any way, making a nod to Joni?

TIMONY: A little bit because I am a huge fan. I have been since I was 18. But, it sort of came to me because I have a song called that on the record and I’m sure that probably came from ripping off Joni Mitchell. Then I just thought that’s a cool name for a record. Then I thought, “Oh, shit!” [Laughs] It’s already been taken! Then I thought about it and then I forgot about it. Then I thought about it again and finally, I was like, “It’s OK. It’s a little bit different.” And I love her!

BLADE: I’m currently reading Ann Powers’ book “Traveling: On the Path of Joni Mitchell,” which comes out in June.

TIMONY: Oh, I’m definitely going to have to read.

BLADE: Yes, please add that to your reading list. “Untame The Tiger” is your first new solo studio album in 15 years. Are there things you write and sing about on your solo records that might be out of place on an album you would record with another one of your musical outfits?

TIMONY: Yes. That’s why this ended up being a solo record. I guess it was because of the tuning of my guitar. They were more or less finished songs. I wanted the songs to sound kind of acoustic. I also wanted to play with a bunch of musicians who I really love. All those things just made it seem like a solo record. If I’m writing for a band, like Ex Hex, which is basically the other band that I do right now, they’re not finished. I bring them in (to the band members) with that band in mind.

BLADE: I love the lush instrumental section on “Thirds” and the psychedelic sounds of “Looking For The Sun” and “The Guest.” Were there things you were listening to while writing the songs for “Untame The Tiger” that were inspiring to you?

TIMONY: I was listening to a lot of music, a ton of stuff. I don’t ever try to purposely emulate anything very often, but I can’t help it. I’d rather be influenced by stuff without really thinking about it too consciously. I always have loved listening to The Left Banke’s instrumentation and The Moody Blues’ string parts. Most of the string parts come from trying to emulate The Moody Blues [laughs] or The Left Banke. I’m obsessed with The Left Banke.

BLADE: “Walk Away Renée,” right?

TIMONY: Yes. This guy, Michael Brown, was such a genius. He wrote so much stuff as a teenager. His dad was a string arranger. Anyway, I love those string parts. I was listening to this prog-rock band The Strawbs and this early (Ronnie) Dio band Elf. (The Flying) Burrito Brothers and The Byrds, too. I love Fairport Convention and Steeleye Span. Richard Thompson and I was really obsessed with Gerry Rafferty’s early solo record called “Can I Have My Money Back?” I love that record. I was listening to it a ton when I was arranging the songs.

BLADE: Why was the song “Dominoes” selected as the first single from “Untame The Tiger?”

TIMONY: I don’t know. I let other people tell me [laughs]. I really hate sequencing records and I hate choosing singles. I’m just too close to it. I can’t tell what people are going to like or not. A lot of times, the ones that I like are not the ones that other people like. I asked (the people at) the label and they suggested that. I think it’s more poppy sounding. Dave Fridmann mixed that one and “Don’t Disappear” and he’s a genius mixer. and these mixers are always very pleasing and accessible sounding. I think that has something to do with it, too.

BLADE: Earlier, we talked about your long history of playing music with others, which reminded me of your guest spot singing “All Dressed Up In Dreams,” written by gay singer/songwriter Stephin Merritt for his band The 6ths’ “Wasps’ Nest” album. 

TIMONY: He’s such a genius!

BLADE: How did that come about?

TIMONY: When I moved to Boston, for a year I lived with Claudia (Gonson of Merritt’s band The Magnetic Fields), who is his drummer. I lived in a group house in Cambridge. I was friends with Claudia, and Stephin lived a few blocks away. She told me he was making this record with guest singers they wanted to go over and sing on it. I went over there one day and he taught me the song and I sang on it.  I think he’s one of the best songwriters of the last 50 years or whatever.

BLADE: I completely agree. As someone who has collaborated with Stephin, are you aware of an LGBTQ+ following for your own music?

TIMONY: I don’t know. I think maybe a little bit. I’d love that. I love everybody who can connect with it, because all I’m trying to do is connect with people.

Mary Timony (Photo by Chris Grady)
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Sherry Vine is turning 60 — and she’s not quitting anytime soon

Legendary drag queen coming to D.C. for new show, ‘Smoke and Mirrors’

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Sherry Vine performs in D.C. on March 9. (Photo courtesy of Sherry Vine)

There are many things Sherry Vine is proud of. Throughout her 33-year-long career, the drag queen has accomplished so much — she’s released music, launched her own variety show and toured across the United States and Europe. 

But what she loves the most about her career is making people laugh. 

This calling to be a comedy queen started before her formal drag career. In high school, she remembers taking part in the musicals, and Vine would find joy in making people laugh by wittily changing song lyrics. 

“Then it just evolved into doing that as the act,” Vine said in an interview with the Blade. 

From the beginning of her career, she’s made singing live parodies a central part of her performance as a drag queen. And for her 60th birthday, she knew she wanted to put on an extravaganza. 

Vine is coming to the Woolly Mammoth on March 9 while on tour for her new show “Smoke and Mirrors,” performed and written by her. It’ll include new parodies, from Bruce Springsteen to ABBA. The D.C.-based drag queen Tara Hoot will be a special guest at the show. 

There’s a lot that led up to this milestone year for Vine. It all started with developing her character more than 30 years ago. 

Developing Sherry Vine

Vine describes her persona as a down-on-her-luck showgirl from Las Vegas with a heart of gold. 

She was always obsessed with stars like Joey Heatherton and Stella Stevens. Not to suggest those stars are down-on-their-luck showgirls, Vine said, but she wanted to evoke a sex kitten mentality. Her character eventually morphed into what it is today from these inspirations. 

But at first, Vine said she thought she had to look funny to be funny. 

“I didn’t care about the makeup. I didn’t wear big breasts. I just thought I had to look like a clown,” Vine said. 

When she moved to New York City in 1992, she was surrounded by queens who balanced being funny and gorgeous simultaneously. That was eye-opening for her, she said. 

Now, she relishes surprising people, she said. She’s been told she looks “too pretty” to be taken for a comedy queen, but that’s OK with her. 

“I want to walk out on stage, and anyone who’s never seen me, maybe they’re like, ‘Oh, she looks good,’” Vine said. “And then I started singing about poop and penis and they’re like, ‘Oh my gosh, she’s so stupid.’”

When she was starting out as a drag queen, Vine reflected that she didn’t envision doing drag as a career. She remembers not wanting to commit to it. She wanted to be a movie star, she said. 

“I kind of fought it. I loved it,” Vine said. “But I was like, I’m not doing this as a career.’”

But once she let go of fighting it, her career exploded. She got connected with RuPaul and was on two television specials in the 1990s. That support was crucial, Vine said, and helped her believe in herself more. 

“I was like, ‘Oh, OK. If this person thinks that I have something, then maybe I do,’” Vine said. 

Drag has changed — a lot 

(Photo courtesy of Sherry Vine)

The drag scene has changed drastically. Vine credits a lot of this transformation to “RuPaul’s Drag Race.” 

“When we started doing drag 30 years ago, no one in their right mind would have been like, ‘I’m going to do drag so I can make a lot of money and be famous,’” Vine said. 

Before RuPaul’s iconic single “Supermodel (You Better Work),” one of the only examples of drag the average consumer saw was “Mrs. Doubtfire,” Vine said.  

“You had to have a passion for it,” Vine said. “You had to have a calling.”

When Vine started, drag was a fringe art form that had an audience of mostly gay men. 

Nowadays, it’s mainstream. Drag is enjoyed by a much wider audience, and is more of a way to become famous. When Vine was coming up in the industry, there were few ways to get on TV and in films as a drag queen, short of playing a character that was murdered on “Law & Order,” she said. 

But even though drag has evolved and grown in popularity, Vine’s advice to drag queens has stayed the same over the years. 

“Don’t try to do something because you think someone else is doing it successfully,” Vine said. “Find what you do, and then exploit and explore that.”

Looking back, looking ahead 

Out of her multi-decade run as a drag queen, Vine said she’s most proud of the longevity of her career. There are a few people who have been in it as long as she has — Lady Bunny and Miss Coco Peru, for example. Few others have made it as long as Vine, she said.  

She stresses that she can’t take credit for creating things, but she takes pride in being one of the first drag queens to go viral on YouTube in the 2000s. Her “Bad Romance” parody, released in 2009, racked up more than 6 million views over the years. 

In the next few years, she’s looking into doing more television and film projects. Her latest show, “The Sherry Vine Variety Show,” just wrapped filming its third season. Creating this show is fulfilling a childhood dream of hers, she said. It’s an homage to “The Carol Burnett Show,” which Vine grew up watching. 

Whether it’s performing on camera or onstage, Vine doesn’t see herself quitting anytime soon. 

“I love performing and drag as much now as I did 33 years ago,” Vine said. “So I don’t see ever stopping.”

To get details on how to buy tickets to “Smoke and Mirrors,” visit woollymammoth.net/productions/sherry-vine.

(Image courtesy of Sherry Vine)
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