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Michael Tilson Thomas Q&A

The out conductor on his long career in classical music

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Michael Tilson Thomas, gay news, Washington Blade
Tilson Thomas, gay news, Washington Blade

Michael Tilson Thomas says the public ultimately decides what works are retained in the classical canon.

Washington Performing Arts presents the San Francisco Symphony

 

Kennedy Center Concert Hall

 

Saturday, April 16

 

4 p.m.

 

$55

 

washingtonperformingarts.org

 

Though just four performances, the San Francisco Symphony’s current East Coast mini-tour features two programs.

The symphony will perform on Saturday, April 16 at 4 p.m. at the Kennedy Center Concert Hall performing Franz Schubert’s Symphony No. 8 “Unfinished” and Gustav Mahler’s “Das Lied von der Erde.” The players will be joined by mezzo-soprano Sasha Cooke and tenor Simon O’Neill. Two days prior, they’ll perform the same program at Carnegie Hall. The symphony will explore works by Copland and Schumann at the New Jersey Performing Arts Center this weekend.

We caught up with Music Director Michael Tilson Thomas, now in his 21st season with the symphony with whom he’s shared 12 Grammys, by phone this week. His comments have been slightly edited for length.

Michael Tilson Thomas, gay news, Washington Blade

Michael Tilson Thomas, music director of the San Francisco Symphony, says managing an orchestra like a business is a mistake. (Photo by Bill Swerbenski; courtesy San Francisco Symphony)

WASHINGTON BLADE: You’ve recorded many Mahler symphonies. What is it about his music that continues to resonate with you?

MICHAEL TILSON-THOMAS: His music is very central to my whole view of life and that was evident from the first time I heard his music when I was around 13. This piece in fact, which we’re about to play in Washington, “Das Lied von der Erde,” I heard the last movement, the farewell, called “Der Abschied,” and it was stunning, a shock to me to hear music which so completely described the shape of my own soul and what I felt to be my parents’ souls, where all the kind of aching questions about the meaning of life and all sorts of questions which I hadn’t even consciously formed, but somehow I just knew this was a testimony that meant so much to me. Part of that was the musical presentation of situations where there can be bitterness or frustration or conflict, but nonetheless there’s still an element of beauteousness as well. For me, the message of the music is to hold on to the beauteousness at whatever the cost. That resonated with me from the first moment and still does.

BLADE: Does the Schubert symphony you’re also performing contrast with or complement the Mahler?

TILSON-THOMAS: Schubert (was) … using this sort of haunted language that was very Czech-influenced because his parents came from what is now the Czech Republic and of course Mahler did as well, so there is this sort of major/minor haunted harmonic language that’s part of it. … On the piano you have a note which you sometimes call E flat or sometimes you call it D sharp. On the piano, it’s the same note, but in orchestral music, these two notes are actually different notes. They do different things and they lead in different directions. Schubert and Mahler are both constantly reinterpreting the meaning of a note. … You’re being kind of guided, pulled back and forth across the line of the meaning of a single note taking you into a brighter or darker world. That’s very much what they’re playing with.

BLADE: As you perform around the country and the world, do you sense differences in how the audiences receive the work?

TILSON-THOMAS: I think we’re very aware of the different audiences. They’re ectoplasmic almost. You come off the stage and you can just sense a certain energy and focus in the hall and that does affect the way you feel about the music. I’m fond of saying these big places for me are like national parks that you return to. You’ve wandered there before, but the company with which you find yourself is different and has an enormous influence on what the nature of the experience is going to be.

BLADE: Have you been insulated to some degree in San Francisco from the kinds of challenges many of our other national symphonies are facing?

TILSON-THOMAS: No, I wouldn’t say so. Like all the major orchestras, we’ve experienced different kinds of crises and growing pains, visions coalescing as different generations have moved through the orchestra. … These things are inevitable. I’ve been performing symphonic music now for 50 years. I started when I was 20, so I’ve seen many changes happen in music and society and music coming from China and Venezuela and parts of the world from which we didn’t used to see so many people. The growth of all these things is a very positive thing in the big picture. So there’s a very positive growth state and at the same time, there are definitely growing pains in society itself. How are these things going to be sustained and grown and what do young musicians coming into the profession desire? What kind of life do they want to have? All these things are being turned over and discussed even as we speak.

BLADE: Are you pressured to perform film scores or saw away under pop acts or that sort of thing to bring in new people? Or have you tried to stave off that sort of thing?

TILSON-THOMAS: There’s a balance that needs to be struck and there’s always going to be a concern of having too many programs that would be apart from the central mission of the orchestra. Not just in symphony orchestras but with any arts organization. There’s a lot of talk about searching for sustainable business models … but these are not businesses. These are idealistic organizations that are communities of people that were established to share a particular art as a living tradition and strengthening and preserving that and passing it on to many generations. That’s the real purpose. It’s necessary perhaps in each new generation to remind ourselves that’s what we’re doing and what we need to do.

BLADE: Your bio makes reference to your work “reimagining the concert experience.” In what ways have you done that?

TILSON-THOMAS: I’ve been very involved with multi-media, new technology and something of a pioneer in using the online resource Internet2 to reach people with educational messages in territories around the world. … Most recently with a process called LOLA, an information system that reduces online latencies and makes it possible now within a thousand kilometers to perform music with someone as if you’re really in the same room with them. … With the New World Symphony, we’ve done a lot of work in video that has been ahead of the curve. Not just concert performance videos … but creating kind of art installations inside the concert hall.

BLADE: Have you always been out professionally?

TILSON-THOMAS: Oh, I don’t know. That’s hard to answer. Joshua (Robison) and I got married a couple years ago but we’ve been together 40 years. Since the very beginning, we were together very clearly with no disguise and that goes back quite a ways at this point. To us, that didn’t seem so remarkable. We worked together in a production company that makes a lot of different musical products and education projects happen around the world and we’ve always done that. We haven’t been involved, as many others have been, in any courageous crusade of one type or another. We supported those things and I have such respect for people who did that. On the other hand, people now say it was somewhat extraordinary that we were living our lives that way in terms of being transparent about being together then and that was unusual, I guess, at the time.

BLADE: How gay are our orchestras in general?

TILSON-THOMAS: I’d say a very rough number would be maybe 10 percent or something like that. Maybe more.

BLADE: Perhaps more in San Francisco?

TILSON-THOMAS: Not necessarily. Orchestras are very individual animals. It was, of course, different when I first began conducting. In any major orchestra there might have been one or two people who were not even out but everybody just kind of knew they were gay. As opposed to now when there are many people in all the major orchestras who are LGBT and it’s not in any way a big deal and certainly not with the many young musicians. If people are thinking they might make music with someone, what’s going on with their gender or sexuality is of no interest whatsoever. If you’re talking about where you’re placing the third of a major chord or issues of tuning or articulation, then that’s a big deal.

BLADE: It’s interesting when you see the kinds of people given the Kennedy Center Honors over time and how popular acts are now being inducted much more often than performers from the classical arts. At the same time, there’s a lot of hand wringing in our symphonies and opera companies and so on. I could give tons of examples. Is society being slowly dumbed down over time?

TILSON-THOMAS: Well there are different kinds of occasions that serve different purposes. There are lots of awards and prizes that are given for certain types of work, like the MacArthur Fellows or the Pulitzer Prizes or the great number of other awards and prizes that are given to people whose names would be little known to the general public, but which nonetheless exert quite an influence within various arts worlds. … Some of these things are much more of an occasion in certain realms than something like the Grammys or the Oscars or those kinds of things which are really more shows. It used to be that if you were from the classical arts and you were up for a Grammy, you would go to the Grammys and you were presented with it there. That no longer happens. Something might happen in a hotel lobby earlier in the day or something because those awards are not in the mainstream.

BLADE: They only give out about six on the air anymore out of 90-some categories or whatever it is.

TILSON-THOMAS: Yeah, well, I guess in any art there will always be different sides. You have people doing quite specific work which they know from the beginning will appeal to a small number of people. Other people are working in much wider areas but it’s extraordinary at this particular moment, the diversity of work that is taking place. It’s really quite remarkable the very interesting experimentations with styles that a lot of people are doing. A lot of people are writing and thinking new thoughts, way more than you would think based on the gloomy predictions that are often made about the future of all of this. It’s not quite the way it looks from the outside when you see all the young people out there creating new work.

BLADE: Would you say the works of Mahler and Schubert don’t carry quite the cultural gravitas they might have a generation ago perhaps?

TILSON-THOMAS: I saw something in San Francisco the other night and one of the pieces on the program was written in 1199. It was the earliest and the most recent piece was written in 1963. So it’s extraordinary how much has changed in that period of 7- or 800 years. There were certain things about that piece from 1199 that were very reminiscent of works by Steve Reich or John Adams and that are still very influential in contemporary musical thought. A composer like Schubert or Mahler, the reaction to whom at the time was often hostility or incomprehension, over time it has been proven that there was something in that music that people wanted to come back to. Ideas that proved to be so powerful, so moving and so authentic that people wanted to hear them again and again and it’s fascinating because it’s the audience that makes that decision. I can be a big fan of some particular composer and can champion that composer through many times and create situations in which their music will be presented, but ultimately 10 or 15 or 20 years later, it will be the public that decides if that music means enough that they want to hear it again.

BLADE: Has audience etiquette improved or deteriorated to any noticeable degree over the course of your career?

TILSON-THOMAS: It’s very different in different places and even on different evenings. These things are very different from city to city and country to country. Even in San Francisco, there’s a certain sense of what the character of the audience is like. The Wednesday night audience, the Thursday night audience, they’re all slightly different in their reactions and in their focus. We created a new series called SoundBox which is designed for people who’ve never been to classical music concerts before with very experimental repertoire and it uses video projection and other things and is kind of set in a club atmosphere. Drinks are served and you have 20 minutes of music then 20 minutes of lounge-type activity and then the music comes back. Well, in fact these audiences are more quiet and focused than the subscription audience can be. They’re totally focused. When the music starts, they’re totally in it. What for me has been particularly gratifying is that with some of this earlier music we’ve been doing, we did one piece by Monteverdi from 1610, so many young people came up and said how transporting it was and you think, “God, here’s something from 400 years ago that can reach out and have that kind of emotional effect.” That really is one of the greatest treasures of my life.

Michael Tilson Thomas, gay news, Washington Blade

Michael Tilson Thomas (Photo by Spencer Lowell; courtesy San Francisco Symphony)

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Rehoboth author’s new book tackles love, loss, and the allure of P-town

Will Freshwater’s series concludes with ‘The Dark Horse’

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Author Will Freshwater’s new book ‘The Dark Horse’ is out now.

For those of us who have experienced the allure of Provincetown, there’s no mystery about why author Will Freshwater set his series of three books there. 

It’s not just about the scenic, remote location, or the many fine restaurants and spirited bars and nightclubs and theme weekends. Not just the picturesque harbor and its famed magical light. It’s about a shared sense of community unique among LGBTQ destinations.

Freshwater, whose latest book “The Dark Horse” is out now, lives in Rehoboth Beach, Del., with his husband Stephen Cremen. And although Rehoboth became home after Freshwater retired from a career as a corporate attorney at Verizon in 2021, P-town always beckons. He first visited during the height of the AIDS crisis.

“I don’t think we’ll ever experience anything like that again,” he said. “The community welcomed anyone who showed up on the ferry looking for love and support; it was a transformative experience.”

Freshwater’s parents worried that he’d never find a “normal,” happy life as a gay man, but P-town put those fears to rest.

“I saw people who were plenty happy and living lives that were what they wanted to be,” he recalls. “I had never been able to hold my boyfriend’s hand and walk down the street; young people can’t conceptualize that. It felt like home for me … it felt welcoming, a warm place where I could be myself.” 

So, naturally, the protagonist in his series of books, John Wells, travels to P-town from D.C. to find himself. 

The first book in the Provincetown series, “Favorite Son,” is a familiar read to any gay man of a certain age who worked on the Hill in the 1990s — the sting of the closet, the need to be the best at work, and the chance meetings of romantic partners while riding the Metro. The story of John Wells, a senior Hill staffer, takes a turn after tragedy sends him reeling to P-town to heal. 

The second book in the series, a prequel titled “The Light Reflected,” takes readers back in time when the main characters — all gay men — are in their 20s. Freshwater says it wasn’t a conscious decision to write a prequel, but that it evolved out of wanting to show younger readers what life was like for gays at that time.

“We did stupid stuff and made stupid mistakes and ran away,” he said. “As a reader I often want to know what made a character a certain way. I was aware of my audience and in my generation I had the older mentors that shared our history and they died; I wanted readers to see what it’s like for these characters to be in their 20s not just their 30s. I wanted to give that perspective to younger readers because I don’t know how they’re going to experience that if not through books.” 

The new book, “The Dark Horse,” finds the characters Danny and Peter/John in domestic life in Boston where Danny runs the family business. Everyone is feeling restless and a bit miserable. 

“It’s about what happens after the fairy tale,” Freshwater said. 

The book also confronts the issue of unresolved feelings for past boyfriends, which takes the characters back to Provincetown. There’s a shocking plot twist at the end of the second book, an unexpected ending for the romance genre, that is resolved to satisfaction in the final book. 

“You won’t know until the final four pages of the book how it resolves,” he notes.

This is the shortest book in the series and Freshwater says it took just 11 months to complete, compared to six years for the first book and eight years for the second book.

“There’s a great sense of closure and I can always visit these characters but I’m excited to move on and do new things.” 

Indeed, Freshwater is working on several new projects, including a book set in Rehoboth that he’s co-writing with a friend, the gay romance author B.J. Irons. Freshwater is writing one character, a Rehoboth local who manages an inn on Baltimore Avenue and wants to “break out of his shell.” Irons is writing the other main character, a developer from Los Angeles who moves to Rehoboth to open a large resort across the street from the inn. The book explores their friendship and business rivalry. 

Rehoboth became home for Freshwater and Cremen thanks largely to the pandemic.

“I’d been coming here since age 3 because it was the closest beach to Pittsburgh,” he said. “When I was in law school I got introduced to a guy who had a house on the beach between Rehoboth and Dewey so I used to come down a lot in the mid-1990s and became hooked.” 

The couple bought a house in Rehoboth in 2018 and split their time between there and a home in New Jersey. 

“When the pandemic started, we went to Rehoboth for two weeks thinking it would all blow over quickly and then never went back.”

 The couple began questioning their stressful lifestyle of maintaining two homes and corporate jobs. So they sold the New Jersey house and moved full time to Rehoboth in 2021. 

In addition to the new book, Freshwater is writing a children’s book using the classic “Velvet Rage” as inspiration. It features a puppy with a pink spot on his cheek while all the others in the litter have a black spot. The dog wears a mask to conceal his difference, but when it comes out everyone accepts him.

“It thematically speaks to not hiding who you are,” he said.

Freshwater offers sound advice to aspiring writers struggling to find their voice and overcome writer’s block.

“It always starts with an idea or character or theme and then you develop a broad outline and then work your butt off,” he said. “Decide when you’re going to write and make a commitment that you’re going to do it, like an athlete who commits to practice every day from 3:30-5:30. Don’t wait for inspiration, just commit to writing every day, and then edit, edit, edit until it feels like what’s inside your head.”

 The new book is self published because Freshwater craved creative freedom. 

“I’m not sure what traditional publishers have to offer anymore,” he said, “like YouTube for musicians, if you’ve got what you think is a high quality manuscript, put it out there and it will generate a following.” 

Freshwater will read from “The Dark Horse” at an event on Saturday, March 23, 5-7 p.m. at Top of the Pines (56 Baltimore Ave., Rehoboth Beach). His books are available at Amazon and anywhere books are sold. 

(Amazon screenshot)
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‘Tiger’ burning bright: an interview with Mary Timony

Today’s female-driven music scene wouldn’t be the same without her

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Mary Timony is back with a new album. (Photo by Chris Grady)

It’s hard to imagine what the current female-driven music scene would be like without Mary Timony. From Sleater-Kinney to Haim, from Angel Olsen to Mitski, the influence of Mary Timony is in every note being played, every word being sung. On her new solo album, “Untame The Tiger” (Merge), with its sly nod to Joni Mitchell, Timony has brought her many years of musical experience to the fore, resulting in what is easily her most accessible release. Beginning with the incredible six-plus minute opener “No Thirds” and continuing through the first single, “Dominoes,” and gorgeous numbers including “The Guest,” “The Dream,” and “Not The Only One,” Timony is assured to keep listeners purring along. Timony made time for an interview shortly before the album was released.

BLADE: Mary, I’d like to begin by talking to you about your musical lives in D.C. and Boston. I went to college in Boston in the early 1980s and was constantly amazed by the bands of the era such as Mission of Burma, Human Sexual Response, and ‘Til Tuesday. I moved to D.C. in the mid-1980s to go to grad school, and at the time, the music scene there was dominated by go-go music, and a smaller indie music featuring BETTY and the late Tommy Keene, among others. What do you remember about the music in D.C. as someone who grew up there?

MARY TIMONY: That’s interesting. We kind of did a switcheroo. I’m from D.C. and I moved to Boston. (In D.C.) I learned, as a teenager, about rock shows and rock music from being involved in the punk scene, the post-hardcore scene of kids here. Those are the shows I went to in high school. Basically, the Dischord (Records) bands and stuff. I saw every single Fugazi show from when they started in ’87. Before that, whatever was happening in 1985, hardcore shows by Swiz and Soulside and Kingface and I loved Ignition. Other than that, I would go see bluegrass out in Virginia and I loved go-go. I would go to see (go-go bands) Rare Essence and Trouble Funk. I was very into that stuff; that was really exciting. I think I liked go-go the most out of all of it, actually [laughs]. I would go to DC Space and 9:30 (Club), mostly for local (acts). I don’t think I ever saw BETTY, but I was a teenager then.

BLADE: Was the active music scene in Boston in the early 1990s part of the appeal for you when it came to relocating to Boston to attend Boston University?

TIMONY: The reason why I went there was because I wanted to go to a music program that was in a big university, in case I didn’t wanna study music the whole time, which is exactly what happened. I studied classical guitar for a year and then I didn’t really like the program much, so I transferred to study English. I found out about the (Boston) music scene from friends. We went to The Middle East (nightclub) and TT’s (T.T. The Bear’s nightclub). Then after college, I ended up living right down the street from The Middle East and I was there constantly.

BLADE: Good old Central Square! As a performer playing in bands including Autoclave, Helium, and Ex Hex, and as a solo artist with her own band, it’s not unreasonable to say that Mary, you are someone who plays well with others. 

TIMONY: [Big laugh.]

BLADE: What makes you such a good team player?

TIMONY: I didn’t know I was [laughs]. I’ve gone back and forth between doing solo stuff and being in bands. Mostly, I’ve done projects where I’ve written a bunch of songs and I’m trying to…I haven’t done a ton of collaborative stuff really. Ex Hex was fun because it was more collaborative. Wild Flag, the same thing, totally 100% collaborative in every way. But Helium was really my thing, but I got some great people that totally influenced it. I’ve always been doing my own thing but tried to find really good people. Music really is about connection. It’s never as good if it’s only one person’s vision. Usually, if it’s good it’s good because of the connection between the musicians. Music is a social art form, I think.

BLADE: “Untame The Tiger” is the title of your new album. In 1999, Joni Mitchell titled her album “Taming The Tiger.” Are you, in any way, making a nod to Joni?

TIMONY: A little bit because I am a huge fan. I have been since I was 18. But, it sort of came to me because I have a song called that on the record and I’m sure that probably came from ripping off Joni Mitchell. Then I just thought that’s a cool name for a record. Then I thought, “Oh, shit!” [Laughs] It’s already been taken! Then I thought about it and then I forgot about it. Then I thought about it again and finally, I was like, “It’s OK. It’s a little bit different.” And I love her!

BLADE: I’m currently reading Ann Powers’ book “Traveling: On the Path of Joni Mitchell,” which comes out in June.

TIMONY: Oh, I’m definitely going to have to read.

BLADE: Yes, please add that to your reading list. “Untame The Tiger” is your first new solo studio album in 15 years. Are there things you write and sing about on your solo records that might be out of place on an album you would record with another one of your musical outfits?

TIMONY: Yes. That’s why this ended up being a solo record. I guess it was because of the tuning of my guitar. They were more or less finished songs. I wanted the songs to sound kind of acoustic. I also wanted to play with a bunch of musicians who I really love. All those things just made it seem like a solo record. If I’m writing for a band, like Ex Hex, which is basically the other band that I do right now, they’re not finished. I bring them in (to the band members) with that band in mind.

BLADE: I love the lush instrumental section on “Thirds” and the psychedelic sounds of “Looking For The Sun” and “The Guest.” Were there things you were listening to while writing the songs for “Untame The Tiger” that were inspiring to you?

TIMONY: I was listening to a lot of music, a ton of stuff. I don’t ever try to purposely emulate anything very often, but I can’t help it. I’d rather be influenced by stuff without really thinking about it too consciously. I always have loved listening to The Left Banke’s instrumentation and The Moody Blues’ string parts. Most of the string parts come from trying to emulate The Moody Blues [laughs] or The Left Banke. I’m obsessed with The Left Banke.

BLADE: “Walk Away Renée,” right?

TIMONY: Yes. This guy, Michael Brown, was such a genius. He wrote so much stuff as a teenager. His dad was a string arranger. Anyway, I love those string parts. I was listening to this prog-rock band The Strawbs and this early (Ronnie) Dio band Elf. (The Flying) Burrito Brothers and The Byrds, too. I love Fairport Convention and Steeleye Span. Richard Thompson and I was really obsessed with Gerry Rafferty’s early solo record called “Can I Have My Money Back?” I love that record. I was listening to it a ton when I was arranging the songs.

BLADE: Why was the song “Dominoes” selected as the first single from “Untame The Tiger?”

TIMONY: I don’t know. I let other people tell me [laughs]. I really hate sequencing records and I hate choosing singles. I’m just too close to it. I can’t tell what people are going to like or not. A lot of times, the ones that I like are not the ones that other people like. I asked (the people at) the label and they suggested that. I think it’s more poppy sounding. Dave Fridmann mixed that one and “Don’t Disappear” and he’s a genius mixer. and these mixers are always very pleasing and accessible sounding. I think that has something to do with it, too.

BLADE: Earlier, we talked about your long history of playing music with others, which reminded me of your guest spot singing “All Dressed Up In Dreams,” written by gay singer/songwriter Stephin Merritt for his band The 6ths’ “Wasps’ Nest” album. 

TIMONY: He’s such a genius!

BLADE: How did that come about?

TIMONY: When I moved to Boston, for a year I lived with Claudia (Gonson of Merritt’s band The Magnetic Fields), who is his drummer. I lived in a group house in Cambridge. I was friends with Claudia, and Stephin lived a few blocks away. She told me he was making this record with guest singers they wanted to go over and sing on it. I went over there one day and he taught me the song and I sang on it.  I think he’s one of the best songwriters of the last 50 years or whatever.

BLADE: I completely agree. As someone who has collaborated with Stephin, are you aware of an LGBTQ+ following for your own music?

TIMONY: I don’t know. I think maybe a little bit. I’d love that. I love everybody who can connect with it, because all I’m trying to do is connect with people.

Mary Timony (Photo by Chris Grady)
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Sherry Vine is turning 60 — and she’s not quitting anytime soon

Legendary drag queen coming to D.C. for new show, ‘Smoke and Mirrors’

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Sherry Vine performs in D.C. on March 9. (Photo courtesy of Sherry Vine)

There are many things Sherry Vine is proud of. Throughout her 33-year-long career, the drag queen has accomplished so much — she’s released music, launched her own variety show and toured across the United States and Europe. 

But what she loves the most about her career is making people laugh. 

This calling to be a comedy queen started before her formal drag career. In high school, she remembers taking part in the musicals, and Vine would find joy in making people laugh by wittily changing song lyrics. 

“Then it just evolved into doing that as the act,” Vine said in an interview with the Blade. 

From the beginning of her career, she’s made singing live parodies a central part of her performance as a drag queen. And for her 60th birthday, she knew she wanted to put on an extravaganza. 

Vine is coming to the Woolly Mammoth on March 9 while on tour for her new show “Smoke and Mirrors,” performed and written by her. It’ll include new parodies, from Bruce Springsteen to ABBA. The D.C.-based drag queen Tara Hoot will be a special guest at the show. 

There’s a lot that led up to this milestone year for Vine. It all started with developing her character more than 30 years ago. 

Developing Sherry Vine

Vine describes her persona as a down-on-her-luck showgirl from Las Vegas with a heart of gold. 

She was always obsessed with stars like Joey Heatherton and Stella Stevens. Not to suggest those stars are down-on-their-luck showgirls, Vine said, but she wanted to evoke a sex kitten mentality. Her character eventually morphed into what it is today from these inspirations. 

But at first, Vine said she thought she had to look funny to be funny. 

“I didn’t care about the makeup. I didn’t wear big breasts. I just thought I had to look like a clown,” Vine said. 

When she moved to New York City in 1992, she was surrounded by queens who balanced being funny and gorgeous simultaneously. That was eye-opening for her, she said. 

Now, she relishes surprising people, she said. She’s been told she looks “too pretty” to be taken for a comedy queen, but that’s OK with her. 

“I want to walk out on stage, and anyone who’s never seen me, maybe they’re like, ‘Oh, she looks good,’” Vine said. “And then I started singing about poop and penis and they’re like, ‘Oh my gosh, she’s so stupid.’”

When she was starting out as a drag queen, Vine reflected that she didn’t envision doing drag as a career. She remembers not wanting to commit to it. She wanted to be a movie star, she said. 

“I kind of fought it. I loved it,” Vine said. “But I was like, I’m not doing this as a career.’”

But once she let go of fighting it, her career exploded. She got connected with RuPaul and was on two television specials in the 1990s. That support was crucial, Vine said, and helped her believe in herself more. 

“I was like, ‘Oh, OK. If this person thinks that I have something, then maybe I do,’” Vine said. 

Drag has changed — a lot 

(Photo courtesy of Sherry Vine)

The drag scene has changed drastically. Vine credits a lot of this transformation to “RuPaul’s Drag Race.” 

“When we started doing drag 30 years ago, no one in their right mind would have been like, ‘I’m going to do drag so I can make a lot of money and be famous,’” Vine said. 

Before RuPaul’s iconic single “Supermodel (You Better Work),” one of the only examples of drag the average consumer saw was “Mrs. Doubtfire,” Vine said.  

“You had to have a passion for it,” Vine said. “You had to have a calling.”

When Vine started, drag was a fringe art form that had an audience of mostly gay men. 

Nowadays, it’s mainstream. Drag is enjoyed by a much wider audience, and is more of a way to become famous. When Vine was coming up in the industry, there were few ways to get on TV and in films as a drag queen, short of playing a character that was murdered on “Law & Order,” she said. 

But even though drag has evolved and grown in popularity, Vine’s advice to drag queens has stayed the same over the years. 

“Don’t try to do something because you think someone else is doing it successfully,” Vine said. “Find what you do, and then exploit and explore that.”

Looking back, looking ahead 

Out of her multi-decade run as a drag queen, Vine said she’s most proud of the longevity of her career. There are a few people who have been in it as long as she has — Lady Bunny and Miss Coco Peru, for example. Few others have made it as long as Vine, she said.  

She stresses that she can’t take credit for creating things, but she takes pride in being one of the first drag queens to go viral on YouTube in the 2000s. Her “Bad Romance” parody, released in 2009, racked up more than 6 million views over the years. 

In the next few years, she’s looking into doing more television and film projects. Her latest show, “The Sherry Vine Variety Show,” just wrapped filming its third season. Creating this show is fulfilling a childhood dream of hers, she said. It’s an homage to “The Carol Burnett Show,” which Vine grew up watching. 

Whether it’s performing on camera or onstage, Vine doesn’t see herself quitting anytime soon. 

“I love performing and drag as much now as I did 33 years ago,” Vine said. “So I don’t see ever stopping.”

To get details on how to buy tickets to “Smoke and Mirrors,” visit woollymammoth.net/productions/sherry-vine.

(Image courtesy of Sherry Vine)
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