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Staying in tune

Emily Saliers on the economics of recording circa 2013, caring for guitars on the road and more

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Indigo Girls, Music, Amy Ray, Emily Saliers, Gay News, Washington Blade
Indigo Girls, Music, Amy Ray, Emily Saliers, Gay News, Washington Blade

The Indigo Girls are Amy Ray, left, Emily Saliers. (Photo by Jeremy Cowart; courtesy Propeller Publicity)

Indigo Girls/Joan Baez concert
Wolf Trap
1551 Trap Road
Vienna, VA
Wednesday
8 p.m.
$28-$42
wolftrap.org
indigogirls.com

It’s easy to take the Indigo Girls for granted. They keep the albums coming every couple years, play the D.C. region often and despite their insistence on keeping things fresh, still manage to feel — and sound — like sonic comfort food.

From her home in Atlanta on the eve of embarking on a 10-date mini-tour with Joan Baez (sandwiched between a slew of other dates), Emily Saliers took a few minutes with us and was as unpretentious and down-to-earth as she’s always been. They play Wolf Trap Wednesday night. Her comments have been slightly edited for length.

BLADE: Why Joan, why now?

SALIERS: Our manager knows Joan’s and we’ve been friends for about 10 years and have toured with her before. The timing was just right and Joan was wanting to do it.

 

BLADE: Full band?

SALIERS: Yeah, we’re bringing the Shadowboxers with us. They’re a great group of young guys and an up-and-coming band. Usually they open for us but since this will be a full show with two sets, they’re the house band. We call Joan our matriarch and then these guys are younger so I really like the intergenerational aspects of the tour.

 

BLADE: Will you be collaborating with Joan on anything or is it separate sets?

SALIERS: We’ll do ours first, then Joan, then we’ll do a handful of songs together.

 

BLADE: Picked the songs yet for the collaborations?

SALIERS: We know we’ll do “Don’t Think Twice It’s All Right” but the others are still in the works. We might do a couple Indigo Girls songs and a couple of Joan’s. There’ll be others we might do some nights and others on other nights.

 

BLADE: For some musical acts — perhaps even most — the general public tends to heavily identify the band or singer with the era in which it had its biggest commercial success. This would be true of both Joan Baez and Indigo Girls. Yet fans know there’s usually so much more to an artist than one era. Does this bother you?

SALIERS: I know that kind of typecasting musically exists. It doesn’t really bother me although I wish people would be a little more broad minded when it comes to such things. We continue to put out new records every couple of years and we’ve had our fingers all over the board in all kinds of genres. I think our discography proves we’re still viable and relevant. For a long time we were just the lesbian band or people just thought of the skits on “Saturday Night Live.” But Amy and I would be so bored if that’s all we were and we feel we’ve done our very best work since then. It’s the same thing in many ways with Joan. She was and still is a tremendous activist and it just goes on and on and on. She’s been very brave and courageous in dangerous times and she’s been true to her vision of social justice. It’s not just old stuff from the ‘70s. She’s that kind of person to us and hopefully we can inspire people the same way.

 

BLADE: So many acts now are just touring on their catalog or might do an EP here or there yet the Indigo Girls, like you said, have kept up with adding to your discography. Has there been any sense that they’ve yielded diminishing returns in some ways or are they creatively satisfying enough for you to have kept at it?

SALIERS: We really don’t make any money selling records, I’ll tell you that. Those days are long, long gone. But I get so fucking excited when an artist I love has a new album out so we try to think of the fans and approach it that way. It’s important for the fans and also for our own musical growth. And yes, we have to think economically, which is a total bummer. There were some glory days when we didn’t have to. It does suck sometimes. Like just recently we were going to do a symphonic record and right in the middle of planning it, the union law changed for the musicians and the studio scale just took it totally out of our league. It’s a shame because we were dying to make that record, but of course we’re also not going to go in the hole for tens of thousands of dollars to do it. It’s just a very different landscape than we came up in so we make a lot of tactful decisions based on economics while also honoring our belief that we have to keep making new music.

 

BLADE: You play D.C. regularly. How are audiences here different from other comparable-size regions?

SALIERS: D.C. audiences are really distinctive. Like Florida in the sense that, well, it’s just so different from anyplace else. Just kind of this strange, exotic place. D.C. has been very loyal to us and we love playing Wolf Trap which in some ways I can’t believe we can still play it because it’s one of the larger venues but we always do well there and we have such a great time. With many amphitheaters the spacial difference can really sop up a lot of the energy but that doesn’t happen at Wolf Trap.

 

BLADE: There are many, many lesbian singer/songwriter-type musicians who have and have had loyal followings in certain circles but never cracked the mainstream zeitgeist in any way. How do you think you and Amy managed to do that?

SALIERS: I think a lot of it was really just timing. We were signed in the era when you had people like Tracy Chapman and Melissa Etheridge and Jewel and Suzanne Vega and a slew of women with acoustic guitars selling a bunch of records. We got signed at that time and radio was friendly to us then. REM gave us a leg of their tour which really helped with visibility. If we came out now, we’d just totally be swimming upstream to maintain successful long careers. I also think because Amy’s music is different from mine, there’s kind of two musical lives playing out here, people don’t get bored by it. We don’t just think of it as music with acoustic guitars. I mean Amy rocks hard. But the reality is it’s a male-dominated business and most women artists have to sell their sexuality to be successful. For men it’s true to a degree but not the same extent. Rock and roll is a male genre and that’s really its power structure.

 

BLADE: How many guitars do you travel with?

SALIERS: We have these massive guitar coffins, they’re called, these travel cases where a bunch can fit in rather than having to line them all up individually. Let’s see, probably about 15-20 including banjo, mandolin and classical guitar, which we use for a few songs.

 

BLADE: Some folks — perhaps the less musically inclined — have asked if it’s really necessary to keep changing guitars every song. Is it because different tunings are used for different songs, overall sonic variety or what? I’m sure you have a guitar tech, right?

SALIERS: It’s all those things, yes. It may seem a bit absurd but trust me, if we didn’t do that or have a guitar tech, which is a very necessary luxury. Our guitar tech Sully has been with us 17 years and really is part of the fabric of the Indigo Girls. But yes, we’d spend half our set just tuning if we didn’t have her. It really contributes a lot to show flow. It really disrupts the flow of things if you have to stand there and keep tuning. So part of it is keeping things interesting for the audience, too. Doing some on mandolin or some on banjo varies it up. If it were all the same sonically it would be very boring.

 

BLADE: Did you have to learn good pitch, both with the guitar and vocally, or did that always just come natural for you? Are there ever times where you go back and think, “Yikes, we went a little flat there.”

SALIERS: Oh yeah, it happens all the time but I grew up in a very musical family and singing in choirs so we were taught to be very mindful of pitch and learned all the little tricks you can do to stay on pitch. I have a good ear and can always tell if something’s a little flat or sharp. I’m very mindful of that, especially on records. In fact, that’s one way Amy and I differ a little. Her feeling would be if a take catches the vibe but is a little pitchy, she’d be more inclined to go with it. I have a little different approach. If the pitch is off, I just can’t live with it.

 

BLADE: How long of a set do you have planned for next week?

SALIERS: Probably an hour to and hour-15 then about four songs with Joan.

 

BLADE: Thanks for your time!

SALIERS: Thanks, take care.

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Tickets on sale for chef Patrick O’Connell’s book launch event

Sept. 18 kickoff to feature José Andrés, Tom Sietsema

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Acclaimed chef Patrick O’Connell is preparing to publish his new memoir, “Main, Middle & Gay” in September and he’s launching the book with an event on Sept. 18 at 6 p.m. at Lisner Auditorium featuring Chef José Andrés and former Washington Post food critic Tom Sietsema.

Tickets for the event go on sale Tuesday, July 21 at Ticketmaster; prices start at $55.

 O’Connell, who’s gay, is the pioneering Michelin-starred chef and longtime proprietor of the Inn at Little Washington. He spoke with the Blade about the September event and the launch of his first memoir.

 “I’ve known [Andrés and Sietsema] for more than 25 years and I have great respect for them,” O’Connell said. “I felt that it would allow us to add a different dimension rather than just have an interviewer. The chemistry will be fun and lively and unpredictable and exciting. I think we’re all different personalities and we’ll compliment each other.”

O’Connell has published cookbooks but this is his first memoir. The event will feature a short film that will highlight his work and the Inn.

“What I hope to do with the event is bring the book to life visually,” he said. “So we’re producing a short film that will be part of it. Most of the audience will not have read the book so it’ll give them a visual flavor of the book. It parallels the evolution of American cuisine over 50 years. It’s a rare perspective to be in the trenches for that long.”

The book’s title refers to the location of the garage on the corner of Main, Middle, and Gay streets in Washington, Va., where he launched his restaurant that became an international culinary destination. 

The Blade will publish the rest of its wide-ranging interview with O’Connell in September in conjunction with the book’s release.

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Arts & Entertainment

Sci-fi has long been at vanguard of LGBTQ representation

Story lines now criticized as ‘woke’ is weird

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Ncuti Gatwa as the Doctor and Jonathan Groff as Rogue lock lips in the long-running sci-fi show, 'Doctor Who.' (Screen capture via Doctor Who/YouTube)

Since I was a teenager, I have liked sci-fi because of the depth with which it explores social issues. At the time, I didn’t know that I was autistic and queer, so I couldn’t see myself in other autistic and queer people. Instead, I saw myself in androids, mutants, telepaths, and sometimes aliens who were portrayed as minorities persecuted by the human majority. It was a universal language for talking about alienation, systemic discrimination, conversion therapy, segregation, and internalized self-hatred.

Now, when so many sci-fi stories are being criticized online as “woke,” it seems weird for me. This is especially true when we are talking about franchises, such as the British TV series “Doctor Who” and American franchise “Star Trek,” both of which have always been remarkably progressive by the standards of their own time. 

Let’s take a closer look at “Doctor Who.”

In June 2026, the BBC cancelled the planned Christmas special, saying that viewers would have to wait longer for the next season after internal studio issues, and now the BBC is looking for new production partners. “Doctor Who” is the longest-running science fiction television series in the world, originally airing from 1963 to 1989 before returning in 2005. The future of the franchise is currently unclear, and many people online immediately began blaming “wokeness” for what had happened to their favorite show.

After all, the Doctor, an alien Time Lord who can regenerate and literally change faces, had traditionally been played by white men. But the last, Fifteenth Doctor was played by Ncuti Gatwa, a Black Scottish-Rwandan actor who has publicly identified as queer (and the doctor himself was first presented as queer character after a queer romantic episode where he kissed a man), while the Thirteenth Doctor was played for three seasons by Jodie Whittaker, the first woman to portray the Doctor. In 2023, the series also introduced Rose Noble, a trans feminine nonbinary teenager and supportive character played by transgender English actress Yasmin Finney.

But despite popular stereotypes online, “Doctor Who” did not suddenly “go woke.” The program has existed in two main eras: the classic series, which aired from 1963 to1989, and the modern revival, which has been broadcast on BBC One since 2005.

Even in the 1960s, one of the program’s earliest stories, “The Daleks” (1963–64), presented an obvious allegory for fascism, racial purity, bigotry and the horrors of war. Throughout the classic era, the Doctor frequently opposed militarism, authoritarian governments, and dictatorships. Many fans have also pointed to moments of queer coding and subtext throughout the classic series.

However, openly queer characters appeared as soon as the modern revival began. 

The 2005 revival introduced Captain Jack Harkness, played by John Barrowman, one of the first openly queer recurring characters in the “Doctor Who” universe. He openly flirted with people regardless of their gender and later became the lead character of the spin-off series “Torchwood.” “Torchwood” went even further with LGBTQ representation, featuring multiple queer characters, including trans and nonbinary characters whose identities were treated as a normal part of the story.

“Doctor Who” has always been remarkably progressive for its time. The franchise doesn’t suddenly change its values, it’s always been “woke.”

The same happened with the American franchise “Star Trek.” 

It is widely known as one of the most openly left-wing and progressive television franchises ever broadcast. The original series, which aired from 1966-1969, was created during the Cold War and featured the utopian United Federation of Planets, a society without poverty or money that can be characterised as socialist or even communist. It also featured Lt. Uhura, played by Nichelle Nichols, a Black woman serving as a highly respected bridge officer at a time when Black women weren’t portrayed in positions of authority on American television. The series also included one of the first interracial kisses in modern American television, between Capt. James T. Kirk (William Shatner) and Uhura in the 1968 episode “Plato’s Stepchildren,” a moment that had a significant cultural impact.

Gene Roddenberry, the creator of the franchise, said that he had wanted to include openly queer characters as well, but believed it would have been impossible to keep the show on the air because it had already pushed social boundaries in so many other ways.

Today, many viewers — including Elon Musk — claim that “Star Trek” has only recently become “woke.” In reality, I think it actually became less radical than the original series. Even queer characters are not a recent addition to the franchise. One of the earliest major queer characters appeared in “Star Trek: Deep Space Nine” (1993–1999): the Trill officer Jadzia Dax, played by Terry Farrell. In the 1995 episode “Rejoined,” she shared one of the first same-sex kisses in the history of the franchise.

However, for some reason, it was the openly gay couple Paul Stamets (Anthony Rapp) and Hugh Culber (Wilson Cruz) inStar Trek: Discovery” (2017–2024), together with the trans Trill character Gray Tal, played by trans actor Ian Alexander, that triggered a major backlash among conservative parts of the fandom. That backlash reached another peak with “Star Trek: Starfleet Academy,” which features the canonically gay Klingon cadet Jay-Den Kraag. The actor has spoken about receiving abuse and threats because of the role, despite the fact that there was nothing especially ideological about his character. He was simply a gay character whose sexuality was only one aspect of who he was. In fact, considering the ideals of the original “Star Trek,” I was more surprised that the franchise still includes relatively few trans or polyamorous characters, and that they are not part of the lead cast. After all, the franchise was created to imagine a future that was ahead of its time.

So why do conservatives and anti-LGBTQ people continue to watch franchises that have always been deliberately progressive? And why do they keep claiming that these shows have only recently “gone woke”?

A more logical explanation is that parts of the audience have become less willing to accept the same kinds of progressive ideas that these franchises have embraced for decades. In other words, it is not the shows that fundamentally changed. Some long-time viewers have become more conservative than they were in their youth, while newer conservative audiences have joined them and begun criticizing franchises without knowing their real history. 

In many ways, geeks have changed more than these shows have. Sci-fi hasn’t “gone woke.” Some of its fans have simply become less comfortable with the same progressive values these franchises have promoted for decades.

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PHOTOS: Vitamin C at JR.’s

Live drag show follows ‘Drag Race All Stars’ viewing party

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Brooke N Hymen performs at JR.'s at the Vitamin C drag show on Friday. (Washington Blade photo by Landon Shackelford)

JR.’s Bar held a “RuPaul’s Drag Race: All Stars” watch party followed by a live drag show on Friday, July 17. The Vitamin C weekly drag show was hosted by Citrine with performers Brooke N Hyman and Rosie Beret.

(Washington Blade photos by Landon Shackelford)

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