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Polluted Waters

‘I’m like a drag queen on Halloween — if it’s Christmas, I’m working’

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John Waters, gay news, Washington Blade
John Waters, gay news, Washington Blade

John Waters returns to the Birchmere Wednesday. (Photo by Greg Gorman; courtesy Birchmere)

A John Waters Christmas
Wednesday at 7:30 p.m.
Birchmere Music Hall
3701 Mount Vernon Ave.
Alexandria, Va.
$49.50

Legendary film director returns to the Birchmere for his annual holiday show next week and we never miss a chance to chat him up. His comments have been slightly edited for length.

WASHINGTON BLADE: How are you?

JOHN WATERS: Ho ho ho! They used to always say when I was young in the ‘60s they had a march that was, “Ho ho Ho Chi Minh.” Then later they yelled, “Ho ho homosexual.” It could mean lot of different things.

BLADE: Tell us about the “I Am Divine” documentary. I know you participated. Do you feel Divine is finally getting her due with this?

WATERS: I think Divine always got a certain amount of great acclaim. I think Divine changed drag queens. There’s no such thing almost anymore as a normal drag queen. They’re all kind of hip, they’re all kind of edgy, so I think Divine was appreciated. But I think what this movie did — and I’m just a talking head in it but I encouraged Jeffrey (Schwarz) and gave him contacts I had and told everybody to do the film — was really show what Divine was like in real life. People thought he walked around like the Divine character every day, which he never did and he was not a transvestite, he didn’t want to be a woman. He was an actor. He certainly was gay, he was a drag queen but he hated wearing it — it was hot, he was fat, he was sweating, all the time, he said, “Oh the hell women go through.” But I think the movie shows him for what he really was — a much shyer, nicer person. That was a character he played and once we established that character, and turned him around and shocked people more by having him play a housewife, a loving mother, then he got good reviews. And I think it was frustrating to him. I was always happy when he had success away from me … because ‘til the day he died they brought up about the eating shit thing. … I could never live up to it and he could never live it down. It’s true, and so I understand the dilemma he was in. It’s not easy to get parts when you’re a 300-pound man no matter what you want to play but he did pretty well with it, and it’s just a shame because I think that “Married With Children” thing would have been a hit.

BLADE: What’s the strangest question you’ve ever had during the Q&A session in your show?

WATERS: Just recently a woman said, “Have you ever eaten pussy” and I said, “Once, really a long time ago.” And another question at a nightclub in New York, a straight guy in the audience and he was straight, I think, said, “You know I’ve never kissed a guy, can I make out with you?” I said, “Sure come up,” and he was really cute and we did the audience went crazy, his girlfriend applauded. But then — I hate to say this — but then an old leather queen said, “Can I?” and I said, “No, the kissing booth is shut.” But that was a new one for me but mostly no, I think most of the time the questions are pretty good. The only bad ones are when they just want to talk about themselves.

BLADE: You’ve said how hard it is to get financing in recent years. Lots of indie artists and filmmakers are doing these Kickstarter campaigns. Would you ever do one?

WATERS: I wouldn’t. But you know Jeffrey raised a lot of money for “I Am Divine” that way. If I was younger and making “Female Trouble,” you’re damn right I would. But I think for me it’s a little much for me to publicly beg. I own three homes, it’s not like I don’t have a penny. It just doesn’t seem to me that I’m a filmmaker who is struggling to begin, so I would feel uncomfortable doing it but I totally understand why other people do it and I think it’s a great idea.

BLADE: Are you still interested in making films?

WATERS: Of course I have a desire to. With “Fruitcake,” I don’t even talk about it anymore because it’s been like five years and it didn’t happen but I had a really good Hollywood development deal and they liked it and then everything changed. But I’ve been lucky, my whole life, I’m a writer. I wrote all my movies, I wrote my stage show, I’ve written a bunch of books they’re all still in print. Even “Shock Value,” which came out in 1980. Luckily I have several careers and they’re equally important to me. I don’t ever think one is better. I never say, “Oh I’m really a filmmaker but I also write books,” I don’t think that. … I would make another movie in a minute, yeah. But what am I going to do next? Probably write another book. My new book comes out next June. My last one was a best seller. I’ve had good luck with that.

BLADE: What’s the book in June?

WATERS: “Car Sick.” I hitch-hiked across America. It comes out June 3. I just saw the cover this week, it looks great.

BLADE: Has it typically taken any special negotiating to get stars who were well known before your films to be in them? People like the Kathleen Turners or the Johnny Depps?

WATERS: Well if they hesitated, it was maybe with their agent before they met with me. The fact that they had meetings with me, it usually meant they were interested in doing it. I tried to bring up anything they were uptight about in the script, the very first thing. … I think they think the critics even if they hate the movie, it will give them some street cred by not taking themselves so seriously and playing with their image which most of them all do. And if it’s a bomb, I get blamed, they don’t. It hasn’t been that hard. I’ve tried to get meetings with Meryl Streep and it’s never happened but I’ve met her at a party and she was real sweet. I don’t think she’s knocking down my door to work with me. But I’ve had really good luck. The stars that I like are the ones that generally have a sense of humor about themselves they’ve had some success for awhile. The worse ones are generally people that got a huge amount of success in their first project and are young. They’re the ones that need that school that Motown used to have where they teach you how to do interviews and be gracious about success. … Johnny Depp was wonderful. He was at the height of his career but he was giving trouble to everybody but me. He had a TV show at the time and I think that’s why he came along with us — he didn’t want to be a teen idol.

BLADE: So did you ask Chris Isaak if he was going to be comfortable masturbating on the toilet for you?

WATERS: You know I can’t remember. I know that he read the script and it had that in that. I’m sure I told him, “We’re not gonna show your dick.” I don’t know if I said that, but certainly I got along with Chris. He’s pretty much a wild man, he might have shown it. No, I’m just kidding.

BLADE: You’ve spoken before about the influence of Herschell Gordon Lewis’s film “Blood Feast.” Did you see it when it first came out in 1963?

WATERS: Oh yeah. I still have the vomit bag.

BLADE: I can’t imagine how that must have seemed at the time. Were you scared?

WATERS: No, we were roaring. We were on our asses laughing. I saw it at the drive in, which were so different then from the way they are now. Now they’re for families but back then, that’s where you went to have sex, to get drunk and do drugs. We went every night. In the winter when you had heaters in the cars, and that’s when “Blood Feast” would play in the worst weather, like in January at the drive in and everybody would honk on the horn when they saw gore. Today they honk on the horn when they see tits, then they honked on the horn for gore. I was shocked when I first went but we were roaring with laugher. The main reasons we all went was because of this vomit bag, which was a brilliant, brilliant marketing gimmick. … We were shocked because nobody had ever seen a gore movie, that was the first one and it wasn’t illegal.

BLADE: Is camp better when it’s unintentional?

WATERS: Well certainly “Showgirls,” no matter what he says today, he did not mean that to be funny. And that’s why it’s so good. He says today it’s a comedy. I’ve always said with “Mommie Dearest” if two scenes had been taken out … she would have won the Oscar. That’s why the Liberace movie was not camp until he talked about cunnilingus and cancer. I think there are some movies to this day, where it’s hard to tell. I just came back from Liverpool, I did my spoken word show and also had a master movie class on the movie “Boom” with Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton. To this day, you don’t know if it’s so bad it’s good, the tone is so hard to read. Tennessee Williams said it was the best movie ever made of his material. I love that it’s so confusing. I think Russ Meyer later tried to be campy for the intellectuals and his films are not nearly as good as when he just made them for real people who were just jerking off looking at big tits.

BLADE: Did Robert Maier talk to you about his 2011 book “Low Budget Hell: Making Underground Movies with John Waters”?

WATERS: No, he didn’t really.

BLADE: Did you read it? Any thoughts?

WATERS: Yeah. I’ll just say one thing — I thought it was kind of disgruntled. Kind of sour grapes from someone I thought was my friend.

BLADE: You tour with another show as well, but it seems the Christmas show has a special place in your heart. Is that fair to say?

WATERS: I really do like Christmas, I’m not lying, but I also recognize that many people hate it and it’s a tough, tough time of the year to get through for some. I do like 13 cities and always feel like Johnny Mathis or Brenda Lee doing a Christmas tour. I just love the fact that I’m working. I’m like a drag queen on Halloween — if it’s Christmas, I’m working.

BLADE: How much does it change from year to year on average?

WATERS: I add new material all the time. If you haven’t seen it for five years, there would be lots of new material but even if you just saw it last year, there would still be some new material. I can’t tell you the exact amount but it’s always changing.

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Annapolis Pride arrives this weekend

Sixth annual LGBTQ celebration held in Maryland capital

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Annapolis Pride is set for Saturday. (Washington Blade file photo by Michael Key)

The Sixth Annual Annapolis Pride Parade and Festival will be held on Saturday, Oct. 3 at 11 a.m. on the streets adjacent to St. John’s College. 

The theme of this year’s Annapolis Pride Parade and Festival celebration is “United in Pride, Together We Thrive!” Saturday’s parade will begin on St. John’s Street adjacent to St. John’s College, continue along Calvert Street to Northwest Street, to Church Circle, and onto West Street. The parade route then turns onto Amos Garrett Boulevard and eventually ends on Constitution Avenue near Maryland Hall.

Those with disabilities will be able to watch the parade from a special viewing porch at the Graduate Hotel at 126 West St. An Annapolis Pride volunteer will be there and available to assist.

For more details, visit the festival’s website. 

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Calendar

Calendar: October 2-8

LGBTQ events in the days to come

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Friday, October 2

Go Gay DC will host “First Friday LGBTQ+ Community Happy Hour” at 7 p.m. at Freddie’s Beach Bar and Restaurant. This is a chance to relax, make new friends, and enjoy happy hour specials at this classic retro venue. Attendance is free and more details are available on Eventbrite. 

Saturday, October 3

Go Gay DC will host “LGBTQ+ Community Brunch” at 11 a.m. at Freddie’s Beach Bar & Restaurant. This fun weekly event brings the DMV area LGBTQ+ community, including allies, together for delicious food and conversation.  Attendance is free and more details are available on Eventbrite.

“Nellie’s DC Drag Brunch” will be at 12 p.m. at Nellie’s Sports Bar. Come get served like a queen by a queen. Join Sapphire Blue, Deja Diamond and their team of amazing drag performers for the most fun you’ll have all weekend. Tickets cost $58.51 and are available on Eventbrite.

Sunday, October 4

Spark Coffee Club will be at 12 p.m. at Spark Social. This is a laid-back daytime hangout built entirely around making new connections. Whether you’re new to the city, new to the community, or just looking to expand your social circle, this is an easy, low-pressure way to spark up a conversation with the person next to you. Come solo or with a friend — you never know who you might meet. For more details, visit Eventbrite. 

Monday, October 5

“Center Aging: Monday Coffee Klatch” will be at 10 a.m. on Zoom. This is a social hour for older LGBTQ+ adults. Guests are encouraged to bring a beverage of choice. For more information, contact Adam ([email protected]).

Tuesday, October 6

DC SAFE and the Mayor’s Office of LGBTQ+ Affairs will host “The Relationship Lab” at 6 p.m. This is a four-week series for LGBTQ+ communities exploring love, boundaries, communication, and connection. Through real conversations and engaging discussions, participants will explore what makes relationships healthy and how to recognize the signs when they’re not. For more details, visit Eventbrite. 

Wednesday, October 7

Job Club will be at 6 p.m. on Zoom upon request. This is a weekly job support program to help job entrants and seekers, including the long-term unemployed, improve self-confidence, motivation, resilience and productivity for effective job searches and networking — allowing participants to move away from being merely “applicants” toward being “candidates.” For more information, email [email protected] or visit www.thedccenter.org/careers.

Center Aging Women’s Social & Discussion Group will be at 6 p.m. on Zoom. This group is a place where older LGBTQ+ women can meet and socialize with one another. To register, visit the DC Center’s website.

Thursday, October 8

The DC Center’s Fresh Produce Program will be held all day at the DC LGBTQ+ Community Center. People will be informed on Wednesday at 5 p.m. if they are picked to receive a produce box. No proof of residency or income is required. For more information, email [email protected] or call 202-682-2245. 

South Asian LGBTQ+ Support Group will be at 7 p.m. on Zoom. KHUSHDC provides a safe, confidential space for South Asian LGBTQ community members to come together and share experiences. The peer support group is an outlet for South Asian-identified LGBTQ individuals to come and talk about anything affecting them. It’s a secure, judgement-free environment to discuss relationships, sexuality, health, well-being, identity, culture, religion, or anything that is on your mind. Please feel free to join, and share stories, learn about available resources, and join our community. For more details, email [email protected]. 

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a&e features

Ryan Murphy’s ‘Monster’ vilifies the lesbian

Netflix show promotes stereotype that queer women are dangerous

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Ella Beatty stars in ‘Lizzie Borden.’ (Photo courtesy of Netflix)

Ryan Murphy’s “Monster: The Lizzie Borden Story” just premiered on Netflix and became the most watched show on the platform. Murphy and his series are deeply controversial. The past three seasons have focused on convicted killers Jeffrey Dahmer, Lyle and Erik Menendez, and Ed Gein, and have garnered considerable criticism for sensationalizing real-life trauma, exploiting victims for entertainment, and glorifying the perpetrators.

But his newest season centers on Lizzie Borden, the white, affluent Massachusetts woman still referenced today in nursery rhymes who was never convicted of killing her parents Andrew and Abby Borden. As with Murphy’s other seasons, the show plays fast-and-loose with real-life history, instead turning a real-life crime into a psychosexual spectacle. 

In real life, Lizzie was found not guilty by an all-male jury in the highly publicized 1892 trial, largely due to a lack of evidence including blood on her clothing and a murder weapon. Her initial statement contradicted her later testimony but her defense team argued that the morphine a doctor repeatedly gave her likely caused her confusion. But despite the fact that Lizzie was acquitted in court, she was ostracized by her community during her life and has been branded a murderer ever since.

Murphy’s highly fictionalized retelling of Lizzie’s story leans into this accusation not only that Lizzie murdered her father and stepmother with an axe but that she was successful in covering it up with the help of the maid Bridget Sullivan. Murphy not only concocts a sapphic relationship between Lizzie and Bridget, pinning the idea of killing Lizzie’s parents on the widely traveled woman who dyes her hair and is repeatedly called a lesbophobic slur by Lizzie’s stepmother, but also portrays Lizzie as an inspiration to Aileen Carol Wuornos, a woman who killed seven men who solicited sex and was also in a relationship with a woman. 

Further, Murphy’s retelling creates a false ending to Lizzie’s story. While in real life, Lizzie and her sister Emma buy a house called “Maplecroft” and live there for the rest of their lives, Murphy instead imagines Bridget returning sporadically for romantic rendezvous with Lizzie and eventually moving back in with her and marching together for women’s right to vote. In real life, Bridget left town immediately after providing testimony and lived in Montana until she died. 

Lesbophobia is at the heart of this retelling of Borden’s story. Despite the fact that Murphy depicts Lizzie and Bridget having sex and possibly getting married or at least promising themselves to one another wearing flower crowns, there is no evidence that Lizzie and Bridget had any romantic or sexual relationship. If they did have a relationship, it would likely have been hidden and any evidence destroyed, but records show that Lizzie herself refused to call Bridget by her real name, instead referring to her as “Maggie,” the name of their previous maid. It was only Lizzie’s stepmother Abby who called Bridget her real name. In Murphy’s retelling, it’s Lizzie’s stepmother Abby who refuses to learn or use Bridget’s actual name and treats her with disdain along with her stepdaughter.

Some people online argue that we are witnessing Lizzie’s story retold through Wuornos’s perspective, so adding in elements of child abuse and sapphic relationships would make sense, but there is no record that Wuornos ever visited Lizzie Borden’s home, or that she was inspired by Borden throughout her life. Instead, Murphy and his co-creator Ian Brennan use (or I would say exploit) Wuornos as a thematic device to make broad stereotypes about female rage across generations. In doing so, they conflate two real-life examples of violence to sapphic individuals.

Depicting a lesbian relationship in this way is not progress, nor is it fruitful representation today. As sapphic shows are increasingly cut and cancelled, Murphy’s inclusion just reinforces the lesbophobic and sexist stereotype that lesbians and queer women are “dangerous” to straight women and abet or incite violence against men and a family unit. At a time when anti-LGBTQ+ legislation and real-world violence and murder of LGBTQ+ people, especially queer and trans people of color, is exploding, stories that frame murder of a family unit as germinating from a sapphic relationship feed into far right narratives.

They further the myth popularized by far right leaders (including those in the highest echelons of government) that LGBTQ+ people are dangerous, a threat to heterosexual norms and family life, despite the data showing that children of same-sex parents have above average health and well-being according to research by the University of Melbourne.

Today, many LGBTQ+ people feel they have to be (or are forced to be) idealized versions of themselves in order to stave off anti-LGBTQ+ stigma, policing and violence. These “acceptable” behaviors and appearances are rooted not only in cisgender, heterosexual norms but also white supremacy, colonialism, xenophobia, and ableism. It is respectability politics that tell us how we can and should behave (including those perpetuating in the wider LGBTQ+ community) and push LGBTQ+ people to assimilate into a society governed by queerphobic normativity. 

I hope it’s clear that I’m not trying to argue that we cannot and should not have shows that depict queer women who kill, or at the very least queer women who are unethical or morally complex. We need these depictions because they ask difficult questions and they reference how some LGBTQ+ people can be and are unethical. In fact, several public LGBTQ+ figures are associated with employee abuse and exploitation, ableism, and fat phobia. 

But when Lizzie’s sapphic identity is invented to drive the story along, arguably to generate interest (especially straight men’s interest) in this spectacle of historical slop, it’s not a story that invites discourse and dimensionality, it’s one that collapses Lizzie, Wuornos, and queer women’s identities and relationships to plot devices. It objectifies and fetishizes queer women, arguably committing violence against not only Lizzie but also Wuornos.

And when there is so little representation of sapphic relationships on mainstream television or streaming platforms, it makes this the vast majority of representation that queer girls and women will see of themselves first, and that the straight public will see. Historians will know that Murphy’s depiction of Lizzie’s life is wrong, but many viewers will not and may not go digging for the truth.

Why not focus on the stories of bisexual, lesbian, and queer women who really existed, shared their identities (sometimes covertly, sometimes not), and had long-term partners? In fact, “Boston marriages” were common in this time period and referred to women living together when sexual and romantic relationships between women were illegal, partially because penal systems didn’t know how women could have sex with one another and didn’t want to put the idea in “impressionable” women’s minds. Why not focus on these stories instead of creating a fictionalized account? We have always existed; we do not need to invent relationships.

Murphy’s depiction of Lizzie Borden is deeply problematic. Lesbophobia is not the only issue at the heart of Murphy’s drama, but it merits a broader discussion about how mainstream media routinely hurt queer women and is part of perpetuating queerphobic violence, and what we all lose in the process. 

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