Arts & Entertainment
Margaret Cho is ‘Live and Livid’ on new comedy tour
‘Children are way safer at a drag show than they are in church’
It’s been a few years since queer comedian, actor, and activist Margaret Cho has done a stand-up comedy tour. In the interim, she’s been acting in a variety of well-received movies (including “Fire Island”) and TV shows (such as “Hacks” and “The Flight Attendant”). In other words, she’s never far from our sight. That’s a good thing! For 2023, Cho embarked on a multi-city comedy tour, “Live and Livid,” and it promises to be the live performance event of the year (sorry Madonna). Margaret was kind enough to answer a few questions before heading out on the road.
BLADE: Margaret, I interviewed you last spring just before the movie “Fire Island” premiered. Since that time, the movie won the Gotham Awards’ Ensemble Tribute, and was named on several end-of-the-year “best of” lists. Additionally, “Fire Island” is Certified Fresh on RottenTomatoes.com with a 94% rating. What does it mean to you to have been associated with such a well-received project?
MARGARET CHO: I love it! I loved making it. I love the cast. I love Joel’s (Kim Booster) vision. I love Andrew’s (Ahn) directing. We are a family, and we’ve got to make sequels, prequels, a whole cinematic universe. I think that would be so valuable. Hopefully, we’ll get to see that. I love them, they’re my babies. I knew that everybody would love this movie. I loved this movie so much. I’m very proud of it and proud of everybody that worked on it.
BLADE: The Lifetime sitcom “Drop Dead Diva,” on which you played Terri Lee, has been brought back and is airing on the Hallmark Channel. How do you feel about the possibility of a whole new generation of viewers getting to see the show?
CHO: I’m very proud of the work that I got to do on that show. It’s really exciting that everybody gets to discover it again. I love that we get to show everybody what we did. It’s so fun and it’s a triumph.
BLADE: Do you have any favorite memories to share from “Drop Dead Diva”?
CHO: I loved working with Liza Minnelli. My very favorite episode was all the stuff I got to do with Patty Duke. She was a legend. I kept trying to get her to come to a screening of “Valley of the Dolls” where we would interview her. She was like, “Oh, nobody wants to see that movie!” I’m like, “What? Are you crazy [laughs]? Everybody loves that movie.” She was such a person to get to know and to work with. What an incredible actor and a lovely woman.
BLADE: You play Nurse Nina in the Apple TV+ educational children’s series “Helpsters.” What do you like best about that?
CHO: The creatures. All of the puppets are so cute. I love working with puppeteers because they’re actually very animated people. They’re so charming and beautiful and fun, and fun to be with. I love (out actor) Rebecca Henderson (who plays Farmer Flynn). We played girlfriends, and now we’re married on the show, we’re married on “Helpsters.” When I see her, I’m like, “We’re doing so good in our relationship!” She was my girlfriend in the (2022) movie “Sex Appeal” on Hulu, and she and I are married on “Helpsters.” She’s my most successful relationship.
BLADE: “Helpsters” is from the makers of “Sesame Street,” and being someone who was in her formative years when “Sesame Street” first started airing, would you say that it was a show that had an impact on you?
CHO: Absolutely! In the ‘90s, I got to work with Kermit the Frog. I mean, talk about an NDA! If you work with a Muppet, like Kermit the Frog, in particular, you have to sign so many NDAs. I’m probably breaking an NDA right now. We had gone to this thing, and Kermit was my partner. We were doing shots with Gorbachev, Mikhail and Raisa Gorbachev were in the United States and they were being hosted by Jane Fonda and Ted Turner, to whom she was married at the time. I had not drunk alcohol in a long time, and they forced us to do shots. Kermit was like (in Kermit’s voice), “Drink it! Drink it!” I couldn’t not do a shot if Kermit’s right there telling me to drink it. I’ve worked with a lot of Muppets, and I’ve had a lot of Muppet drama [laughs].
BLADE: Your 2023 North American tour is titled “Live & Livid.” We certainly have a lot to be livid about, especially in the years following the 45th president, as well as the events of Jan. 6, and the deadly rise of white nationalism. Were these sources of inspiration, and what else are you livid about?
CHO: Yes! Also the attacks on drag queens, the attacks on queerness, the attacks on trans folks, the continual attacking of different parts of our community who are so important to us. Whether it’s our athletes, like Brittney Griner. Whether it’s trans kids. Drag queens, to me, who are front and center, the heart and joy of our community. It’s where we celebrate, with drag. That’s the most heartbreaking part of this is. They’re taking down the really important part of community. The cheerful ones, the ones that we need. Well, not Bianca Del Rio [laughs]. Bianca’s my favorite! They should be scared of drag queens! They will get read to filth. They should be afraid! Children are way safer at a drag show than they are in church!
BLADE: As of now, when we’re talking, “Live & Livid” is scheduled to run through September with stops in 20 cities, including San Francisco. What does it mean to you when you get to perform for the hometown crowd?
CHO: Oh, I love it. It’s sort of still my hometown in a lot of ways. I have deep roots there. I spent so much time there, so it’s still home in a lot of ways. It’s meaningful and a cherished thing. But, also, I think I’m a citizen of everywhere. I’ve been everywhere, so it’s all my home.
BLADE: It’s been six years since you launched your previous tour, “Fresh Off the Bloat.” What are you most looking forward to about returning to performing live again?
CHO: I think we had a really difficult time throughout the pandemic and through this resetting of this idea of what the world is. It’ll be great to greet people again in this new space. The gratitude that I have for live performance, and going to live shows and performances as it is, is a really special thing. I’m very excited.
BLADE: Are there any upcoming projects about which you’re excited that you’d like to mention?
CHO: Nothing that I can mention, as yet. But I’m really looking forward to this year. I have things that I’m working on that I’m really thrilled about. Things that are starting to come up that I’ll be able to talk about soon. I’m working a lot, so I’m really happy about that.
BLADE: This interview is taking place on Friday the 13th. Are you superstitious, and if so, what superstitions do you observe?
CHO: I love Friday the 13th! I love black cats. I love this whole notion of the cursed film or cursed TV show. There’s something about it. Whether it’s “The Exorcist” or “Poltergeist.” Any of these ideas of things being ill-willed or bad omens. “The Omen!” I love horror, so to me it’s a very special day. It’s my happy day, my holiday.
Highball Productions held performances of a drag musical, ‘Defrosted,’ at JR.’s on Friday and Saturday.
(Washington Blade photos by Michael Key)




















Movies
Intense doc offers transcendent treatment of queer fetish pioneer
‘A Body to Live In’ a fascinating trip into a transgressive culture
Once upon a time in the 1940s, a teenager named Roland Loomis, who lived with his devout Lutheran parents in Aberdeen, S.D., received a hand-me-down camera from his uncle. It was a gift that would change his life.
Small and effeminate, he didn’t exactly fit with the “in” crowd of his small rural town; but he had an inner life more thrilling than anything they had to offer, anyway, and that camera became the key with which it could finally be unlocked. Waiting patiently for those precious hours when he was alone in the house, he used it to capture images of himself that expressed an identity he had only begun to explore, through furtive experiments in body manipulation that incorporated exotic costuming, erotic nudity, gender ambiguity, and what many of us might call (though he would not) self-mutilation, including the piercing of his skin and other extreme forms of physical modification.
Young Roland would go on to become famous (or perhaps, notorious) in the decades to come, but it would be under a different name: Fakir Musafar, the focal figure of filmmaker Angelo Madsen’s documentary “A Body to Live In,” which opened in Los Angeles on Feb. 27 and expands to New York this weekend.
Like Musafar himself, who died of lung cancer at 87 in 2018, it’s a documentary that doesn’t quite follow the expected rules. Eschewing “talking head” commentators and traditional narration, Madsen spins his movie from his subject’s extensive archives and allows the information to come through the voices of those who were close to him: collaborator and life partner Cléo Dubois, performance artists Ron Athey and Annie Sprinkle, and underground publisher V. Vale are among the many who contribute their memories and impressions of him, while evocative photos and film footage create a hazy “slide show” effect to provide a guided tour of his life, his art, and his legacy. Less a biography than a chronicle of profoundly unorthodox self-discovery, it details his development from those early days of clandestine self-photography through a continual evolution that would see him become a performance artist, a central figure in the burgeoning BDSM culture, a seeker who espoused eroticism as a spiritual practice, the founder of a “Radical Faeries” offshoot for the kink/fetish community, and ultimately an elder and mentor for a new generation for whom his once-taboo ideas and explorations had essentially become mainstream – thanks in no small part to his own pioneering efforts.
It’s a fascinating, hypnotic trip into a culture which might feel disturbingly transgressive to those who have never been a part of it – yet will almost certainly feel like being “seen” to those who have. It opens a window into a lifestyle where leather, kink, BDSM, gender play, and non-monogamous “situationships” are not just accepted but viewed as natural variations on the spectrum of human sexuality; and in the middle of it all is Musafar, on a deeply personal quest to connect with the deepest part of his essence through the intense and ritualistic pursuit of an inner drive that keeps pushing him further. As one reminiscing cohort remarks during the film, it’s as if he is “trying to find an answer to a question that” he “cannot form.”
Indeed, it might be said that Madsen’s movie is an exercise in forming that question; bringing his own “transness” into the mix as he examines the various aspects of Musafar’s ever-evolving relationship with self, identity, and presentation, he evokes a timely resonance in which the imperative to make physical form match psychic self-perception becomes an irresistible force, and draws a direct line between his subject’s fluid ambiguity and the plight faced by modern trans people over the bigotry of those who think gender is strictly about genitalia. Perhaps the question has to do with whether we are defined by our identities or by our physical form – or if both are malleable, adaptable, and in a constant state of flux.
In any case, with regard to Musafar, “A Body to Live In” is unquestionably a film about transformation, not just of physical manifestation but of consciousness itself. In his journey from being little Roland, the outcast schoolboy with a secret fetish, to Fakir, the spiritual psychonaut for whom sex and gender are only walls that separate us from a true and eternal essence, he is embodied by Madsen’s reverent documentary as a being in the process of breaking free from the restrictions of physical existence, of transcending all such distinctions by letting go of life itself – something underscored not only by the section of the movie dealing with the impact of the AIDS epidemic on Musafar’s deeply-bonded community, but by his own words, spoken in a deathbed interview that serves as a connecting thread throughout the film. We are kept unavoidably aware of the mortality which – for Musafar at least – seems little more than a prison that keeps us from the unfettered joy of our true nature.
But while Madsen honors his subject as a pillar – and an under-sung hero – of contemporary queer culture, he also addresses the aspects that made him a “problematic” figure; in his life, he drew criticism over perceived cultural appropriation from the indigenous American tribes whose sacred rituals inspired the kink-flavored practices which facilitated his own spiritual odyssey, and which he popularized among his own acolytes to give rise to the still-controversial “Modern Primitive” movement that has been criticized by some for turning meaningful cultural traditions into an excuse for trendy fashion accessories. Even Musafar’s survivors, whose love for him exudes palpably from the stories and memories they share of him throughout the film, make observations that point to his flaws; yet at the same time, Madsen’s documentary makes clear that Musafar himself never saw himself as perfect, either – just as someone willing to endure the kind of suffering that most of us might find unbearable in order to get closer to perfection.
Of course, it probably helped that he enjoyed that so-called “suffering,” but that’s perhaps too glib an observation in the face of a film that so clearly makes a case for the deep and sincere commitment he held for his quest for transcendence; but it’s also a helpful reminder that his practices – which might seem macabre and twisted to the uninitiated – were also an experience of joy, an exercise in rising above pain and making it a vehicle toward enlightenment, and in achieving a deeper understanding of one’s own place in this confusing place we call the universe.
Full disclosure: “A Body to Live In” is an intense experience, replete with candid sexual conversation, frequent nudity, and graphic scenes of extreme fetish practices – like suspension by metal hooks through the skin – which might be hard to handle for those who are unprepared to be confronted by them. Even so, as dark and menacing as it might be for the squeamish outsider, the world revealed in Madsen’s eloquent portrait is full of treasures and steeped in dark beauty, and it’s hard to imagine a more fitting way than that to portray a queer pioneer like the former Roland Loomis.
Nightlife
In D.C. comedy, be sure to shop local
A thriving patchwork of queer-friendly stages in Washington, Baltimore
Most people know stand-up comedy from Netflix specials or late-night sets on Comedy Central. The reality is far different for local working comics like me. A few times a month, I might get paid $50 for a 10-minute set and my photo on a bar flyer to show off to the ladies in my scrapbooking club.
Still, it’s a joy sharing laughs about my well-worn Washington career arc — from conservative reporter to openly trans organic grocery store worker and nightclub comedian. Or, as I like to say onstage, from Fox to foxy.
Stand-up is hard. Offstage, it’s even harder. It took more than a year and nearly 80 open mics to land my first paid set. Since then, I’ve performed in coffee shops, bars, restaurants and even on a city sidewalk. I once performed in the Catskills, which felt like a big deal — even if it was a bigger deal in the 1950s.
As an older trans comic in Washington, I’ve found it nearly impossible to get stage time — or even the courtesy of a returned email — at the big, corporate-owned comedy clubs. Fortunately, there’s a thriving patchwork of queer-friendly producers in Washington and Baltimore creating shows that reflect the diversity of our communities, instead of straight male-dominated lineups that look like the cast of “Ice Road Truckers.”
“There are so many kinds of funny people, but a lot of barriers exist for women and queer people because it’s a very masculine culture,” said Dana Fleitman, who runs the Just Kidding Comedy Collective and is helping produce the Woke Mob Comedy Festival in April, featuring many women and queer comics.
Full disclosure: I’m not performing in the festival. But I am proud to be one of more than 50 women and nonbinary comics Fleitman and her colleagues have helped “train up” through an incubator program she first ran through Grassroots Comedy and now through Just Kidding Comedy Collective.
Another trans comic, Charlie Girard, who splits time between New York and Washington, runs an incubator program called Queers Can’t Take a Joke. He has trained more than 100 comics in Washington.
Girard has one rule: no punching down.
“The best comics speak truth to power,” Girard said. “Making fun of marginalized communities is simple lazy writing based on tired, old stereotypes.”
Ultimately, Girard wants to prepare students not just for queer rooms, but to find their voice and expand into all kinds of spaces.
Comics trained by Girard and Fleitman have gone on to produce or help run shows like Clocked Comedy, Backbone Comedy, the Crackin’ Up open mic and Funny Side Up. Several have found a home on Barracks Row at As You Are — one of my favorite places to perform. In Washington, comic Jenny Cavallero’s show Seltzer is a sober comedy night frequently featuring local queer comics.
In Washington, performer and producer Arzoo Malhotra, who runs Zoo Animal Productions, said it’s a critical moment to support community-based comedy producers, often the first hit by worsening economic conditions.
“We’re losing spaces faster than we’re creating them,” Malhotra said. “We are in the use-it-or-lose-it stage. If there’s a restaurant you like or a performer you want to keep seeing, patronize them now — because they’re going away.”
I’m also grateful for producers in Baltimore, which has a thriving queer comedy scene. Comic Hannah Alden Jeffrey’s monthly “The Really Cool Open Mic,” created for women and trans performers but open to all, regularly draws up to 100 people.
Hannah’s mic and Kenny Rooster’s “Dramedy” open stage have provided safety and opportunity when other stages felt out of reach. Comedians Michael Furr and Jake Leizear also produce shows regularly featuring queer comics.
“We started the REALLY COOL Open Mic because every other mic in town catered toward straight dudes that dominated the Baltimore scene,” Alden Jeffrey said. “Contrary to the lineups of many shows today, people don’t want to see a show of eight guys being bigots. Go figure.”
One of the most important moments for me came when I attended a free showcase at a well-known Adams Morgan club. Like other big venues, it hadn’t responded to emails from a new comic looking for a shot. I sat in the back row thinking maybe these comics were just way funnier than I am.
Then a straight male comedian — with hair even more gorgeous than mine — launched into a long joke comparing eating pizza to performing oral sex on a woman.
At that moment, I walked out feeling better about myself. I remember thinking: nope. I absolutely deserve to be on that stage, too.
Lots of us do.
Jamie Mack is a stand up comedian, speaker and writer. Follow them on Instagram at @jamiemack_blt or email [email protected].
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