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The ‘Stonewall’ brouhaha

Director says he’s proud of film, despite activist backlash

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Roland Emmerich, Stonewall movie, gay news, Washington Blade,
Roland Emmerich, Stonewall movie, gay news, Washington Blade,

Jeremy Irvine as Danny in ‘Stonewall,’ throws the first brick. The filmmakers have drawn considerable ire for centering the action around Danny, a fictional character. (Photo courtesy Roadside Attractions)

When the world got its first look at the “Stonewall” trailer in August, reaction was swift and withering with some even calling for LGBT people to boycott the film, a dramatization of the 1969 New York riots that were a turning point for gay rights.

The film was assailed, from snarky social media posts (“Ah yes! That wonderful point in gay history where super models got really angry”) to outright vitriol. Pat Cordova-Goff, who identifies as a “transwomyn of color” is calling for a boycott with the Gay-Straight Alliance Network. “Do not throw money at the capitalistic industry that fails to recognize true s/heros. Do not support a film that erases our history. Do not watch ‘Stonewall,’” she writes.

The beefs are essentially that historical events have been “whitewashed,” that trans characters are pushed to the sidelines and played by non-trans actors and that, as Tim Teeman wrote for the Daily Beast, “everyone appears to have been bused in from laughably predictable central casting.” The events are centered around a fictional character named Danny, a white Midwestern teen kicked out of his home for being gay. Ironically, few have pointed out that Jeremy Irvine, the 25-year-old “War Horse” actor who plays him, is straight.

Irvine, director Roland Emmerich and writer Jon Robin Baitz (all white, the latter two gay) have defended the film, which opens on Friday, Sept. 25 (it’s screening at area theaters such as Landmark E Street Cinema, ArcLight Bethesda, Angelika Film Center and more). They counter that most of the criticism is based on the trailer, not the film itself, that the true events of the riots are shrouded in myth and that any dramatization uses artistic license to varying degrees. Legendary gay writer Larry Kramer defended the filmmakers.

Emmerich, widely known for helming major films like “Independence Day” (1996), “Godzilla” (1998) and the Mel Gibson vehicle “The Patriot” (2000), is already at work on his next project. The German-born auteur spoke to the Blade by phone from his Los Angeles home. His comments have been slightly edited for length.

Roland Emmerich, Stonewall movie, gay news, Washington Blade,

Jonny Beauchamp, left, as Ray, and Vlad Alexis as Cong in ‘Stonewall.’ Although the filmmakers have been accused of ‘whitewashing’ history, it does include several Latino and African-American gender-nonconforming characters. (Photo courtesy Roadside Attractions)

WASHINGTON BLADE: What was the genesis of “Stonewall”?

ROLAND EMMERICH: Actually a producer friend of mine, Michael Fossat, proposed it to me. I was kind of like, “I don’t know, with so many great gay directors, why should I do a gay movie?” But then I started checking it out and read a lot and at the same time I took a tour of the Los Angeles Gay & Lesbian Center and saw the homeless youth program and I realized that 40 percent of homeless youth are LGBT. Compared to the overall population, that’s actually quite a big number and so slowly I kind of started thinking that maybe this is something for me. We started looking for a writer and I read this terrific play by Robbie Baitz and it kind of came together. First we wrote a script and then we took it from there.

 

BLADE: The trailer got a lot of criticism. Did it give the wrong impression of the film or were people too quick to judge the film based on it?

EMMERICH: I like the trailer. We premiered it at the GLAAD awards and it got a standing ovation. Nobody had any criticism of it there. It’s very unfortunate that some people kind of felt it was kind of some sort of whitewashing, but it isn’t. The film itself uses a white character as a catalyst but the film itself is actually quite ethnically diverse. It has, you know, like all facets of the LGBT community both historic and invented. I didn’t comment on it much because I really felt I didn’t want to comment on criticism of the trailer.

 

BLADE: I’m not a filmmaker. What dramatic purpose does it serve to have a character such as Danny to center the action around? Why was that a device you wanted to utilize?

EMMERICH: Well, a friend of mine told me his story and that interested me a lot because it’s still a story that happens today with kids getting thrown out of their homes for being gay. These are often quaint kind of middle-class homes and then they end up on the street and I just felt that would be a unique approach because these stories show that you can be in that situation and hold on to your dignity and your dream and not lose them in the process. So it was a coming-of-age story with kids, which I could imagine very well. Also, the overall theme was one of unrequited love. When you look at the movie, it’s a lot about people who love somebody and it’s not that the other person doesn’t love them, but they cannot be together and yet at the end they all come together and create something great. That was overall, dramatically, I’d say, when I started with Robbie, you first talk about the approach you want to take. We are also big (J.D.) Salinger fans and he was a big writer in the ‘60s, you know. So that was a type of an influence, and it all came together from there. When you do your research on this, you realize there’s not really one standout character in these riots. I loved the idea that it was this group of homeless kids that we know about who were part of it. Just an overall riot of many people who had just had it. You know how riots happen. It was actually really sparked by a lesbian who resisted arrest. That’s what really threw everything into high gear.

 

BLADE: Theoretically could the film have worked with somebody like Marsha P. Johnson as the protagonist? Could you have gotten a green light with that approach?

EMMERICH: Well we never did get a green light. I gave my own green light. I love the Marsha P. Johnson character. I have friends who are trans women, but it felt to me like I’m a white male, I’m openly gay and we can have all forms of sexuality in this film, but I think it’s good to use somebody very close to yourself, you know, and find truth in that. We also didn’t want to make the Jonny Beauchamp character (Ray, a composite) as just Sylvia Rivera because she was the one who said she was at the Stonewall that night. I didn’t want to invent stuff around Sylvia. She was not a club kid and didn’t really have any relationship like that. So all this kind of came together through discussions and we used a lot of historical characters but also with these invented characters. I thought it was a better approach, at least for me, to show the feel this time had. We talked to some Stonewall veterans and we only found white guys, you know? I think actually there was one who wanted to call me but then this person died shortly after.

Roland Emmerich, Stonewall movie, gay news, Washington Blade,

Director Roland Emmerich says ‘Stonewall,’ despite its relatively small budget, was a tough film to get made. (Photo courtesy Roadside Attractions)

BLADE: How was the shoot?

EMMERICH: Well it was odd because we wanted to make it first on location in New York but it was too expensive and we found they’d never let us do what we wanted to do there. … New York is a very expensive town. So we ended up doing it in Montreal where we were able to use some Canadian actors and get a huge tax rebate. Once we decided to film it there, everything came together nicely. We had a very nice shoot, like 42 days, and it was one, big, happy family.

 

BLADE: Was it hard to get it financed?

EMMERICH: It was about $17 million and we got like $4 million back in tax rebates and the rest we did as a pre-sale to Germany and other countries. A friend of mine and I put in the rest. We went to all my usual contacts and they all said, “Oh, this is too niche, there’s no real big name in it,” and blah, blah, blah.

 

BLADE: Are the Hollywood bean counters squeamish about gay themes or is there a legit point in the math?

EMMERICH: No, they’re not. When somebody like, you know, Sean Penn takes on Harvey Milk, they’re all there because they know that’s an actor who can win an Oscar. So there’s more incentive to do films like that where the actor can be the incentive. They also say things like, “Why is he making a movie like that, why is he not making one of his big movies where we can make a lot of money?” And I’m saying, “I will make those movies, but I want to make other movies too.” I like these smaller projects sometimes, like “Anonymous.” Nobody wanted me to do that one either, but it’s fine.

 

BLADE: What’s it like making a small film like “Stonewall” versus a big-budget action spectacle like “Independence Day?” Do the headaches increase with the scope as one might expect or not necessarily?

EMMERICH: I think it is more complex making a film like “Independence Day” because you’re dealing with a little bit more complex techniques, like shooting half the movie on bluescreen, where it’s very, very tough to keep the actors involved. “Stonewall” was a very different method, a very old-fashioned method actually, where we actually built the street and everything, then in the back we had some photographic backgrounds and maybe only one or two scenes were bluescreen, the march and one other scene. It was a very gritty atmosphere on the set and I think the actors get something out of that. … I got a lot of knowledge working on those big movies that I could use in “Stonewall,” you know? I just kind of know how to make things realistic looking when they’re not.

 

BLADE: Sometimes controversy works in your favor. Will it help you here?

EMMERICH: Maybe it brought more attention to the film. I don’t know if people would have known about it otherwise. Now at least the gay people know. Sometimes a controversy works against you and sometimes it works for you. We won’t know till it comes out. It’s an interesting dynamic. Nobody knows what will happen but you never know this with any movie what will happen. I’m quite content. I’m already making my next movie. I’m very proud of the movie we did and everybody who was involved.

 

BLADE: How much straight support will the movie need to be successful?

EMMERICH: That will be a very interesting thing. … When we tested the movie, it actually tested better with straight people than gay because straight people don’t have all this sense of they think they know what it was about. Gay people think, “Oh, it was because Judy Garland died,” and they think they know the story, where as straight audiences don’t think like that. They think, “What was the story like and how did I get into the story and what did I learn?” They were actually amazed at how emotional they got in the story. I hope for a wider audience but it’s also not a big release. It’s like a 100-print release, so it’s perfect for me. We’ll see what happens.

 

BLADE: Have you been out your entire career?

EMMERICH: At the beginning in Germany I wasn’t out because I never wanted to become the gay director and it was kind of a typical thing in Germany, if you were out it was like you were a gay director and you only did gay movies, so I didn’t think it was good to come out. It was also a different time. Then I came to America and, of course, my friends knew, but at a certain point I realized I’m making big movies, I can be out, so I came out. This was like maybe 20 years ago, which was a bit late. I’m 59 turning 60, so it was a little different time. For me, “Stonewall” represents this mythical moment. I went to Christopher Street the first time I was in New York and stood in front of the Stonewall and it was always kind of like Germany to me. A little bit of this coming out, this proud moment because of what happened there.

LGBT film, gay news, Washington Blade

Otoja Abit as Marsha P. Johnson in ‘Stonewall.’ (Photo by Philippe Bossé; courtesy of Roadside Attractions)

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Rehoboth author’s new book tackles love, loss, and the allure of P-town

Will Freshwater’s series concludes with ‘The Dark Horse’

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Author Will Freshwater’s new book ‘The Dark Horse’ is out now.

For those of us who have experienced the allure of Provincetown, there’s no mystery about why author Will Freshwater set his series of three books there. 

It’s not just about the scenic, remote location, or the many fine restaurants and spirited bars and nightclubs and theme weekends. Not just the picturesque harbor and its famed magical light. It’s about a shared sense of community unique among LGBTQ destinations.

Freshwater, whose latest book “The Dark Horse” is out now, lives in Rehoboth Beach, Del., with his husband Stephen Cremen. And although Rehoboth became home after Freshwater retired from a career as a corporate attorney at Verizon in 2021, P-town always beckons. He first visited during the height of the AIDS crisis.

“I don’t think we’ll ever experience anything like that again,” he said. “The community welcomed anyone who showed up on the ferry looking for love and support; it was a transformative experience.”

Freshwater’s parents worried that he’d never find a “normal,” happy life as a gay man, but P-town put those fears to rest.

“I saw people who were plenty happy and living lives that were what they wanted to be,” he recalls. “I had never been able to hold my boyfriend’s hand and walk down the street; young people can’t conceptualize that. It felt like home for me … it felt welcoming, a warm place where I could be myself.” 

So, naturally, the protagonist in his series of books, John Wells, travels to P-town from D.C. to find himself. 

The first book in the Provincetown series, “Favorite Son,” is a familiar read to any gay man of a certain age who worked on the Hill in the 1990s — the sting of the closet, the need to be the best at work, and the chance meetings of romantic partners while riding the Metro. The story of John Wells, a senior Hill staffer, takes a turn after tragedy sends him reeling to P-town to heal. 

The second book in the series, a prequel titled “The Light Reflected,” takes readers back in time when the main characters — all gay men — are in their 20s. Freshwater says it wasn’t a conscious decision to write a prequel, but that it evolved out of wanting to show younger readers what life was like for gays at that time.

“We did stupid stuff and made stupid mistakes and ran away,” he said. “As a reader I often want to know what made a character a certain way. I was aware of my audience and in my generation I had the older mentors that shared our history and they died; I wanted readers to see what it’s like for these characters to be in their 20s not just their 30s. I wanted to give that perspective to younger readers because I don’t know how they’re going to experience that if not through books.” 

The new book, “The Dark Horse,” finds the characters Danny and Peter/John in domestic life in Boston where Danny runs the family business. Everyone is feeling restless and a bit miserable. 

“It’s about what happens after the fairy tale,” Freshwater said. 

The book also confronts the issue of unresolved feelings for past boyfriends, which takes the characters back to Provincetown. There’s a shocking plot twist at the end of the second book, an unexpected ending for the romance genre, that is resolved to satisfaction in the final book. 

“You won’t know until the final four pages of the book how it resolves,” he notes.

This is the shortest book in the series and Freshwater says it took just 11 months to complete, compared to six years for the first book and eight years for the second book.

“There’s a great sense of closure and I can always visit these characters but I’m excited to move on and do new things.” 

Indeed, Freshwater is working on several new projects, including a book set in Rehoboth that he’s co-writing with a friend, the gay romance author B.J. Irons. Freshwater is writing one character, a Rehoboth local who manages an inn on Baltimore Avenue and wants to “break out of his shell.” Irons is writing the other main character, a developer from Los Angeles who moves to Rehoboth to open a large resort across the street from the inn. The book explores their friendship and business rivalry. 

Rehoboth became home for Freshwater and Cremen thanks largely to the pandemic.

“I’d been coming here since age 3 because it was the closest beach to Pittsburgh,” he said. “When I was in law school I got introduced to a guy who had a house on the beach between Rehoboth and Dewey so I used to come down a lot in the mid-1990s and became hooked.” 

The couple bought a house in Rehoboth in 2018 and split their time between there and a home in New Jersey. 

“When the pandemic started, we went to Rehoboth for two weeks thinking it would all blow over quickly and then never went back.”

 The couple began questioning their stressful lifestyle of maintaining two homes and corporate jobs. So they sold the New Jersey house and moved full time to Rehoboth in 2021. 

In addition to the new book, Freshwater is writing a children’s book using the classic “Velvet Rage” as inspiration. It features a puppy with a pink spot on his cheek while all the others in the litter have a black spot. The dog wears a mask to conceal his difference, but when it comes out everyone accepts him.

“It thematically speaks to not hiding who you are,” he said.

Freshwater offers sound advice to aspiring writers struggling to find their voice and overcome writer’s block.

“It always starts with an idea or character or theme and then you develop a broad outline and then work your butt off,” he said. “Decide when you’re going to write and make a commitment that you’re going to do it, like an athlete who commits to practice every day from 3:30-5:30. Don’t wait for inspiration, just commit to writing every day, and then edit, edit, edit until it feels like what’s inside your head.”

 The new book is self published because Freshwater craved creative freedom. 

“I’m not sure what traditional publishers have to offer anymore,” he said, “like YouTube for musicians, if you’ve got what you think is a high quality manuscript, put it out there and it will generate a following.” 

Freshwater will read from “The Dark Horse” at an event on Saturday, March 23, 5-7 p.m. at Top of the Pines (56 Baltimore Ave., Rehoboth Beach). His books are available at Amazon and anywhere books are sold. 

(Amazon screenshot)
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‘Tiger’ burning bright: an interview with Mary Timony

Today’s female-driven music scene wouldn’t be the same without her

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Mary Timony is back with a new album. (Photo by Chris Grady)

It’s hard to imagine what the current female-driven music scene would be like without Mary Timony. From Sleater-Kinney to Haim, from Angel Olsen to Mitski, the influence of Mary Timony is in every note being played, every word being sung. On her new solo album, “Untame The Tiger” (Merge), with its sly nod to Joni Mitchell, Timony has brought her many years of musical experience to the fore, resulting in what is easily her most accessible release. Beginning with the incredible six-plus minute opener “No Thirds” and continuing through the first single, “Dominoes,” and gorgeous numbers including “The Guest,” “The Dream,” and “Not The Only One,” Timony is assured to keep listeners purring along. Timony made time for an interview shortly before the album was released.

BLADE: Mary, I’d like to begin by talking to you about your musical lives in D.C. and Boston. I went to college in Boston in the early 1980s and was constantly amazed by the bands of the era such as Mission of Burma, Human Sexual Response, and ‘Til Tuesday. I moved to D.C. in the mid-1980s to go to grad school, and at the time, the music scene there was dominated by go-go music, and a smaller indie music featuring BETTY and the late Tommy Keene, among others. What do you remember about the music in D.C. as someone who grew up there?

MARY TIMONY: That’s interesting. We kind of did a switcheroo. I’m from D.C. and I moved to Boston. (In D.C.) I learned, as a teenager, about rock shows and rock music from being involved in the punk scene, the post-hardcore scene of kids here. Those are the shows I went to in high school. Basically, the Dischord (Records) bands and stuff. I saw every single Fugazi show from when they started in ’87. Before that, whatever was happening in 1985, hardcore shows by Swiz and Soulside and Kingface and I loved Ignition. Other than that, I would go see bluegrass out in Virginia and I loved go-go. I would go to see (go-go bands) Rare Essence and Trouble Funk. I was very into that stuff; that was really exciting. I think I liked go-go the most out of all of it, actually [laughs]. I would go to DC Space and 9:30 (Club), mostly for local (acts). I don’t think I ever saw BETTY, but I was a teenager then.

BLADE: Was the active music scene in Boston in the early 1990s part of the appeal for you when it came to relocating to Boston to attend Boston University?

TIMONY: The reason why I went there was because I wanted to go to a music program that was in a big university, in case I didn’t wanna study music the whole time, which is exactly what happened. I studied classical guitar for a year and then I didn’t really like the program much, so I transferred to study English. I found out about the (Boston) music scene from friends. We went to The Middle East (nightclub) and TT’s (T.T. The Bear’s nightclub). Then after college, I ended up living right down the street from The Middle East and I was there constantly.

BLADE: Good old Central Square! As a performer playing in bands including Autoclave, Helium, and Ex Hex, and as a solo artist with her own band, it’s not unreasonable to say that Mary, you are someone who plays well with others. 

TIMONY: [Big laugh.]

BLADE: What makes you such a good team player?

TIMONY: I didn’t know I was [laughs]. I’ve gone back and forth between doing solo stuff and being in bands. Mostly, I’ve done projects where I’ve written a bunch of songs and I’m trying to…I haven’t done a ton of collaborative stuff really. Ex Hex was fun because it was more collaborative. Wild Flag, the same thing, totally 100% collaborative in every way. But Helium was really my thing, but I got some great people that totally influenced it. I’ve always been doing my own thing but tried to find really good people. Music really is about connection. It’s never as good if it’s only one person’s vision. Usually, if it’s good it’s good because of the connection between the musicians. Music is a social art form, I think.

BLADE: “Untame The Tiger” is the title of your new album. In 1999, Joni Mitchell titled her album “Taming The Tiger.” Are you, in any way, making a nod to Joni?

TIMONY: A little bit because I am a huge fan. I have been since I was 18. But, it sort of came to me because I have a song called that on the record and I’m sure that probably came from ripping off Joni Mitchell. Then I just thought that’s a cool name for a record. Then I thought, “Oh, shit!” [Laughs] It’s already been taken! Then I thought about it and then I forgot about it. Then I thought about it again and finally, I was like, “It’s OK. It’s a little bit different.” And I love her!

BLADE: I’m currently reading Ann Powers’ book “Traveling: On the Path of Joni Mitchell,” which comes out in June.

TIMONY: Oh, I’m definitely going to have to read.

BLADE: Yes, please add that to your reading list. “Untame The Tiger” is your first new solo studio album in 15 years. Are there things you write and sing about on your solo records that might be out of place on an album you would record with another one of your musical outfits?

TIMONY: Yes. That’s why this ended up being a solo record. I guess it was because of the tuning of my guitar. They were more or less finished songs. I wanted the songs to sound kind of acoustic. I also wanted to play with a bunch of musicians who I really love. All those things just made it seem like a solo record. If I’m writing for a band, like Ex Hex, which is basically the other band that I do right now, they’re not finished. I bring them in (to the band members) with that band in mind.

BLADE: I love the lush instrumental section on “Thirds” and the psychedelic sounds of “Looking For The Sun” and “The Guest.” Were there things you were listening to while writing the songs for “Untame The Tiger” that were inspiring to you?

TIMONY: I was listening to a lot of music, a ton of stuff. I don’t ever try to purposely emulate anything very often, but I can’t help it. I’d rather be influenced by stuff without really thinking about it too consciously. I always have loved listening to The Left Banke’s instrumentation and The Moody Blues’ string parts. Most of the string parts come from trying to emulate The Moody Blues [laughs] or The Left Banke. I’m obsessed with The Left Banke.

BLADE: “Walk Away Renée,” right?

TIMONY: Yes. This guy, Michael Brown, was such a genius. He wrote so much stuff as a teenager. His dad was a string arranger. Anyway, I love those string parts. I was listening to this prog-rock band The Strawbs and this early (Ronnie) Dio band Elf. (The Flying) Burrito Brothers and The Byrds, too. I love Fairport Convention and Steeleye Span. Richard Thompson and I was really obsessed with Gerry Rafferty’s early solo record called “Can I Have My Money Back?” I love that record. I was listening to it a ton when I was arranging the songs.

BLADE: Why was the song “Dominoes” selected as the first single from “Untame The Tiger?”

TIMONY: I don’t know. I let other people tell me [laughs]. I really hate sequencing records and I hate choosing singles. I’m just too close to it. I can’t tell what people are going to like or not. A lot of times, the ones that I like are not the ones that other people like. I asked (the people at) the label and they suggested that. I think it’s more poppy sounding. Dave Fridmann mixed that one and “Don’t Disappear” and he’s a genius mixer. and these mixers are always very pleasing and accessible sounding. I think that has something to do with it, too.

BLADE: Earlier, we talked about your long history of playing music with others, which reminded me of your guest spot singing “All Dressed Up In Dreams,” written by gay singer/songwriter Stephin Merritt for his band The 6ths’ “Wasps’ Nest” album. 

TIMONY: He’s such a genius!

BLADE: How did that come about?

TIMONY: When I moved to Boston, for a year I lived with Claudia (Gonson of Merritt’s band The Magnetic Fields), who is his drummer. I lived in a group house in Cambridge. I was friends with Claudia, and Stephin lived a few blocks away. She told me he was making this record with guest singers they wanted to go over and sing on it. I went over there one day and he taught me the song and I sang on it.  I think he’s one of the best songwriters of the last 50 years or whatever.

BLADE: I completely agree. As someone who has collaborated with Stephin, are you aware of an LGBTQ+ following for your own music?

TIMONY: I don’t know. I think maybe a little bit. I’d love that. I love everybody who can connect with it, because all I’m trying to do is connect with people.

Mary Timony (Photo by Chris Grady)
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Sherry Vine is turning 60 — and she’s not quitting anytime soon

Legendary drag queen coming to D.C. for new show, ‘Smoke and Mirrors’

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Sherry Vine performs in D.C. on March 9. (Photo courtesy of Sherry Vine)

There are many things Sherry Vine is proud of. Throughout her 33-year-long career, the drag queen has accomplished so much — she’s released music, launched her own variety show and toured across the United States and Europe. 

But what she loves the most about her career is making people laugh. 

This calling to be a comedy queen started before her formal drag career. In high school, she remembers taking part in the musicals, and Vine would find joy in making people laugh by wittily changing song lyrics. 

“Then it just evolved into doing that as the act,” Vine said in an interview with the Blade. 

From the beginning of her career, she’s made singing live parodies a central part of her performance as a drag queen. And for her 60th birthday, she knew she wanted to put on an extravaganza. 

Vine is coming to the Woolly Mammoth on March 9 while on tour for her new show “Smoke and Mirrors,” performed and written by her. It’ll include new parodies, from Bruce Springsteen to ABBA. The D.C.-based drag queen Tara Hoot will be a special guest at the show. 

There’s a lot that led up to this milestone year for Vine. It all started with developing her character more than 30 years ago. 

Developing Sherry Vine

Vine describes her persona as a down-on-her-luck showgirl from Las Vegas with a heart of gold. 

She was always obsessed with stars like Joey Heatherton and Stella Stevens. Not to suggest those stars are down-on-their-luck showgirls, Vine said, but she wanted to evoke a sex kitten mentality. Her character eventually morphed into what it is today from these inspirations. 

But at first, Vine said she thought she had to look funny to be funny. 

“I didn’t care about the makeup. I didn’t wear big breasts. I just thought I had to look like a clown,” Vine said. 

When she moved to New York City in 1992, she was surrounded by queens who balanced being funny and gorgeous simultaneously. That was eye-opening for her, she said. 

Now, she relishes surprising people, she said. She’s been told she looks “too pretty” to be taken for a comedy queen, but that’s OK with her. 

“I want to walk out on stage, and anyone who’s never seen me, maybe they’re like, ‘Oh, she looks good,’” Vine said. “And then I started singing about poop and penis and they’re like, ‘Oh my gosh, she’s so stupid.’”

When she was starting out as a drag queen, Vine reflected that she didn’t envision doing drag as a career. She remembers not wanting to commit to it. She wanted to be a movie star, she said. 

“I kind of fought it. I loved it,” Vine said. “But I was like, I’m not doing this as a career.’”

But once she let go of fighting it, her career exploded. She got connected with RuPaul and was on two television specials in the 1990s. That support was crucial, Vine said, and helped her believe in herself more. 

“I was like, ‘Oh, OK. If this person thinks that I have something, then maybe I do,’” Vine said. 

Drag has changed — a lot 

(Photo courtesy of Sherry Vine)

The drag scene has changed drastically. Vine credits a lot of this transformation to “RuPaul’s Drag Race.” 

“When we started doing drag 30 years ago, no one in their right mind would have been like, ‘I’m going to do drag so I can make a lot of money and be famous,’” Vine said. 

Before RuPaul’s iconic single “Supermodel (You Better Work),” one of the only examples of drag the average consumer saw was “Mrs. Doubtfire,” Vine said.  

“You had to have a passion for it,” Vine said. “You had to have a calling.”

When Vine started, drag was a fringe art form that had an audience of mostly gay men. 

Nowadays, it’s mainstream. Drag is enjoyed by a much wider audience, and is more of a way to become famous. When Vine was coming up in the industry, there were few ways to get on TV and in films as a drag queen, short of playing a character that was murdered on “Law & Order,” she said. 

But even though drag has evolved and grown in popularity, Vine’s advice to drag queens has stayed the same over the years. 

“Don’t try to do something because you think someone else is doing it successfully,” Vine said. “Find what you do, and then exploit and explore that.”

Looking back, looking ahead 

Out of her multi-decade run as a drag queen, Vine said she’s most proud of the longevity of her career. There are a few people who have been in it as long as she has — Lady Bunny and Miss Coco Peru, for example. Few others have made it as long as Vine, she said.  

She stresses that she can’t take credit for creating things, but she takes pride in being one of the first drag queens to go viral on YouTube in the 2000s. Her “Bad Romance” parody, released in 2009, racked up more than 6 million views over the years. 

In the next few years, she’s looking into doing more television and film projects. Her latest show, “The Sherry Vine Variety Show,” just wrapped filming its third season. Creating this show is fulfilling a childhood dream of hers, she said. It’s an homage to “The Carol Burnett Show,” which Vine grew up watching. 

Whether it’s performing on camera or onstage, Vine doesn’t see herself quitting anytime soon. 

“I love performing and drag as much now as I did 33 years ago,” Vine said. “So I don’t see ever stopping.”

To get details on how to buy tickets to “Smoke and Mirrors,” visit woollymammoth.net/productions/sherry-vine.

(Image courtesy of Sherry Vine)
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