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Character actor Leslie Jordan on his pony obsession, TV hits and misses and his dream threesome

‘Will & Grace’ actor returns to D.C. for Pride-week standup show June 5

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Leslie Jordan says his current stand-up show ‘EXPOSED’ is his best one yet. (Photo courtesy Jordan)

Washington Blade presents:

Leslie Jordan EXPOSED

Wednesday, June 5

7 (sold out) and 9 p.m.

Union Stage

740 Washington St., S.W.

$45 ($60 with meet and greet)

unionstage.com

Actor/comedian Leslie Jordan returns to Washington for another Blade-sponsored stand-up show Wednesday, June 5. The “Sordid Lives”/“Will & Grace” Southern sissy spoke by phone two weeks ago from his Los Angeles home. 

He doesn’t wait for a question — just starts things off with some bad news. 

LESLIE JORDAN: I got this television series, which by the way, got canceled today.

WASHINGTON BLADE: Ohhhh

JORDAN: I’m gutted

BLADE: I’m so sorry.

JORDAN: I don’t care so much except the money was so good. I really liked that. I’m sure other things will come along, but it’s a political move. Twentieth Century Fox was bought by Disney and this new guy came in and it was really weird, he picked up only really dramas. And guess what’s going on in our place? (“WWE) SmackDown,” that wrestling show. 

BLADE: How did you hear?

JORDAN: (Series creator) Charlie (Day) called me, who’s just so adorable. He did “It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia,” he created the series and wrote it. First he sent me an e-mail and said, “Be ready because it’s probably going to happen.” Then he called us each personally which I thought was very sweet. … I don’t know, there’s a chance it could be picked up by another network so you just roll with the flow.

BLADE: How did you like working with (“Cool Kids” co-star) Vicki (Lawrence)? 

JORDAN: We glommed on to one another from the moment we met. We’d met at the airport before in Puerto Vallarta and she said, “Oh, I remember,” and I thought, “She doesn’t remember me.” (Laughs) She was my best friend and is my best friend still. She’s more upset about it than I am, I think. But yeah, we got along so well. She’s exactly like you think she would be. It was so interesting on that show because all four of us (Jordan and Lawrence co-starred with David Alan Grier and Martin Mull) had such history in the industry. … It was kind of a companion piece to Tim Allen’s show (“Last Man Standing”) and I always forget, he’s just rabidly Republican so it’s a very conservative audience and we followed them with all kinds of shenanigans. We had gay people, gay people kissing.

BLADE: How did you feel it was going?

JORDAN: Well I knew there were some problems with the direction only because the network was there so much and I kind of thought at first well, maybe it’s because it’s a new show but oh my god, we would have rewrites right up until and even in front of our audience. But they did that on “Will & Grace” too, so I didn’t think that much about it. But then I think Charlie Collier, who’s the new person at Fox, he wanted to put his own stamp on things, so there’s that. I don’t think we did anything bad or wrong.

BLADE: How long is it usually in sitcoms from the night you tape until it airs?

JORDAN: The rule of thumb is you want about five in the can but we didn’t shoot in the same order they aired. We try to stay about five ahead so you can gauge the audience reaction. It’s a really interesting process for me, ‘cause I’ve been on other shows from the beginning but not where I was one of the lead lead leads.

BLADE: Do you prefer sitcoms to single camera?

JORDAN: My schedule on “Cool Kids” was the easiest schedule I ever have. You know, on “American Horror Story,” we did like 14-hour days. And we’d have big stars like Lady Gaga who could only give us one day so we had to get all her stuff in. That’s the difference between multi-cam, which was “The Cool Kids.” We’d be out in the woods in Malibu trying to make it look like it was Virginia. I don’t know how those people like (“American Horror Story” mainstay) Sarah Paulson do it. She’s such a trooper. She’s been doing it for years, all these 14-hour days. I don’t know how they do it.

BLADE: What do you do when you have downtime between shots?

JORDAN: I’m a big napper, which is funny because I don’t nap at home. Or I like to watch. I don’t mind sitting there on the set watching the other actors. I’d rather do that than sit in my trailer. I know people who watch TV, read a book. I read, but mostly on my way to work. And of course I’m a big yapper. Sometimes I have to go to my trailer because I just talk until I’m exhausted.

BLADE: Have you ever seen one of those big reclining boards they have on sets?

JORDAN: The only time I’ve ever seen that was on “The Help,” of all places. I haven’t done many costume dramas but on “The Help,” they had Jessica Chastain, who was kind of unknown then, I mean she’d done a couple movies, but she wasn’t anything like she is now, they had her in this gorgeous dress and she requested that. She couldn’t sit down so they just hung her up there like a bat. But yeah, it’s like a board where you have to put your arms up. I said, “You look so pretty hanging there.” She said, “I don’t want to wrinkle my dress.” I said, “God, you’re a trooper.” I’d wrinkle that dress, I couldn’t care less. Make ‘em steam it. (laughs)

BLADE: Have you ever spilled something just before a shot?

JORDAN: A hundred times. I’ll tell you what the worst is, you have to go pee real fast and you say, “I’ll be back in two seconds,” then you dribble. Then everybody’s looking and they take a hair dryer out (laughs). But I’m notorious. At lunch break when I’m on these shows, the costumers will come take my clothes off and put me in a T-shirt because I’m just notorious. When I was a little boy, I’d come home and my mom would say, “Oh, spaghetti, green beans …,” she knew everything I’d had because it was all over me.

BLADE: Tell us about your new live show.

JORDAN: I’m so proud of it, I think it’s the best of all my shows. I tell about each of my previous ones and within the journey of telling about all that and how it was when I first got to Hollywood, this wonderful kind of journey comes out about acceptance. I’m really proud of it. The last time I was in D.C. was the weekend of that devastating occurrence at the club in Orlando, you remember that? Oh honey, it was Pride weekend but that Sunday morning I was taken to the White House, they invited me, the Washington gay choir and Ty Herndon was there, because our ex-president and his lovely first lady wanted a gay presence there so I have this wonderful story and I end the show telling about that weekend.

BLADE: You were in our parade three years ago, and threw the first pitch at Night OUT plus your show. How was D.C. for you last time?

JORDAN: It was wonderful. The only thing was I wanted to ride a pony and they thought I was kidding. I showed up in my riding gear. I said, “Where’s the pony,” they said, “Oh we thought you were kidding.” I said, “Does it look like I’m kidding?” So I went to Kinkos and made a little sign that said, “I was promised a pony.” If you look at the pictures, it’s me in the back of a car in a riding outfit. Nobody knew what the fuck was going on.

Leslie Jordan in the 2016 Capital Pride Parade. (Washington Blade file photo by Michael Key)

BLADE: Have you done many Pride events?

JORDAN: So many over the years, I love it. I’ve been the grand marshal I can’t even tell you how many times. My favorite was years ago in Nashville, this was like 20 years ago. I said, “Y’all must be brave in Nashville, Tennessee, with all those rednecks,” and they said, “We do have a wonderful parade. It’s nothing like y’all get in L.A. It’s mainly a baton-twirling sissy and two lesbians.” I thought, “Well, that’s all you need for a parade — a baton-twirling sissy and two lesbians.” (laughs)

BLADE: Are you staying for the parade this year?

JORDAN: No, I have to get back to L.A. because I’m hosting an Actors Fund event for Lily Tomlin the night of the Tonys.

BLADE: Last time we talked you said things had dried up after you won your Emmy and that’s what led to your stage show, but lately you’ve been doing a lot of TV. How did you get hot again?

JORDAN: Well I’ve been able to balance the two really, really well. The TV stuff, I have no control over. It truly is just things falling into my lap but I have to be available for it. The year before we did “Cool Kids” (2017) I did 44 venues, which I love because of the immediate response of the audience. But you have to balance it because all the money’s in TV, you just can’t beat the money so that allows me to go on the road and I do really well. … Now to have done a full year on a show, that’s got to help my TV profile. Something’s gotta give here. I’m 64, I’ve been at it a long time. If you can get a series on the air for about four seasons, you’re set. It’s all gravy from there. But they’ve already called me for “Will & Grace” next season, they want to book me again for that. In a way I’ve done everything I really set out to do, so from here on out it’s all just fun. 

BLADE: How many “Will & Grace” episodes have you done since it came back?

JORDAN: Let me see, I’ve done three. One was a Christmas episode where you barely saw me but then I did a hilarious one last season where they named the wall after me because I gave so much money to the Republican party and then Karen wants her name on the wall and we got rolled over to Mexico and put in those cages (laughs). But anyway, it was wonderful. But (co-creator) Max (Mutchnick) had called me and asked if I wanted to come back. I said, “Of course, but you killed me.” He said, “Don’t worry, we’ll figure something out,” so they ended up just kind of dropping that finale because it was just too much going on there. I didn’t do the first one, they were already like five in by the time I was there so they’d had their little reunion, but … Megan Mullally gave me the sweetest compliment. She said, “I never lost Karen Walker, but tonight bantering with you, I believe Karen Walker is truly back.” I thought that was sweet.

BLADE: What do you think of this trend of rebooting so many classic shows? Especially the ones like “Dynasty” or “MacGyver” they do with new casts?

JORDAN: I wonder why with all these platforms now, people aren’t open to new ideas. It’s harder now. My friend Del Shores and I come up with these ideas all the time and go to pitch’ em and they just stare at us. Maybe we’re just too old and it’s just kids running the shows now. Of course, you wanna bring stuff back but it gets a little ridiculous after a while. 

BLADE: What’s something you like and don’t like about the way the industry has evolved in let’s say the last 10 years or so?

JORDAN: I like the way in which gay characters are portrayed, I really like that. It’s been a long journey since I got here in 1982. It was very wink-wink. You’d go out at night to the gay bars and see every producer and casting director in town, then you’d see them on the job and it was very wink-wink, very different than it is today. What I don’t like about the industry today is there seems to be no sense of history. I got so upset the other day because somebody online, a TV critic, called our show “The Cool Kids” a snoozefest and I wanted to write him and say I would love for you to come to 20th Century Fox to stage 17 and see the 80-odd people who come in sometimes at 4 o’clock in the morning to create this snoozefest. The four leads on that show have more combined TV history than you would if you worked the rest of you entire life. It’s so casual and easy to critique and everybody’s a critic now. I wanted to say, “Young man, you need to respect your elders.” (laughs)

BLADE: Last time we talked you were excited about having lost weight. Have you kept it off?

JORDAN: No, I’m fat as a pig. I went over to the equestrian center, I wanted to ride a pony, they have a beautiful pony there, and they said, “No, you’re too fat.” I gained more weight on this “Cool Kids,” but no, I’m gonna try to get it off. But I’m not trim at all. I’m as big as Dallas and half of Fort Worth. 

BLADE: What happened?

JORDAN: The catering on “The Cool Kids” was ridiculous. They’d come to me and say, “Leslie, there’s this little Asian lady over there cooking rice balls,” and I’d go, “We just had tacos.” It was like being in a food mall. The food was constant, so I’ve got to get that off. I mean I’m not fat, fat. I’ve gained about eight pounds, but on me, I’m like a little beach ball with arms.

BLADE: Who’s your dream threesome?

JORDAN: I think Eddie Redmayne is adorable. Oh, I don’t know, I’m so old I don’t even think about that anymore (laughs). My biggest crush has always been Mark Harmon. I’ve known him 20-30 years and he just gets better and better looking. Same with George Clooney. I did a series with George a hundred years ago. So that’s a funny threeway — Mark Harmon, Leslie Jordan and George Clooney.

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Marc Shaiman reflects on musical success stories

In new memoir, Broadway composer talks ‘Fidler,’ ‘Wiz,’ and stalking Bette Midler

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Marc Shaiman (Photo by Robert Trachtenberg)

If you haven’t heard the name Marc Shaiman, you’ve most likely heard his music or lyrics in one of your favorite Broadway shows or movies released in the past 50 years. From composing the Broadway scores for Hairspray and Catch Me if You Can to most recently working on Only Murders in the Building, Hocus Pocus 2, and Mary Poppins Returns, the openly queer artist has had a versatile career — one that keeps him just an Oscar away from EGOT status.

The one thing the award-winning composer, lyricist, and writer credits with launching his successful career? Showing up, time and time again. Eventually, he lucked out in finding himself at the right place at the right time, meeting industry figures like Rob Reiner, Billy Crystal, and Bette Midler, who were immediately impressed with his musical instincts on the piano.

“Put my picture under the dictionary definition for being in the right place at the right time,” Shaiman says. “What I often try to say to students is, ‘Show up. Say yes to everything.’ Because you never know who is in the back of the theater that you had no idea was going to be there. Or even when you audition and don’t get the part. My book is an endless example of dreams coming true, and a lot of these came true just because I showed up. I raised my hand. I had the chutzpah!”

Recalling one example from his memoir, titled Never Mind the Happy: Showbiz Stories from a Sore Winner ( just hit bookshelves on Jan. 27), Shaiman says he heard Midler was only hiring Los Angeles-based artists for her world tour. At the young age of 20, the New York-based Shaiman took a chance and bought the cheapest flight he could find from JFK. Once landing in L.A., he called up Midler and simply asked: “Where’s rehearsal?”

“Would I do that nowadays? I don’t know,” Shaiman admits. “But when you’re young and you’re fearless … I was just obsessed, I guess you could say. Maybe I was a stalker! Luckily, I was a stalker who had the goods to be able to co-create with her and live up to my wanting to be around.”

On the occasion of Never Mind the Happy’s official release, the Bladehad the opportunity to chat with Shaiman about his decades-spanning career. He recalls the sexual freedom of his community theater days, the first time he heard someone gleefully yell profanities during a late screening of The Rocky Horror Picture Show, and why the late Rob Reiner was instrumental to both his career and his lasting marriage to Louis Mirabal. This interview has been edited and condensed.

BLADE: Naturally, a good place to start would be your book, “Never Mind the Happy.” What prompted you to want to tell the story of your life at this point in your career?

SHAIMAN: I had a couple of years where, if there was an anniversary of a movie or a Broadway show I co-created, I’d write about it online. People were always saying to me, “Oh my God, you should write a book!” But I see them say that to everybody. Someone says, “Oh, today my kitten knocked over the tea kettle.” “You should write a book with these hysterical stories.” So I just took it with a grain of salt when people would say that to me. But then I was listening to Julia Louis-Dreyfus’ podcast, and Jane Fonda was on talking about her memoir — not that I’m comparing myself to a career like Jane Fonda’s — but she felt it was time to take a life review. That really stuck in my head. At the time, I was sulking or moping about something that had not gone as well as I wished. And I guess I kind of thought, “Let me look back at all these things that I have done.” Because I have done a lot. I’m just weeks short of my 50th year in show business, despite how youthful I look! I just sat down and started writing before anyone asked, as far as an actual publisher.

I started writing as a way to try to remind myself of the joyous, wonderful things that have happened, and for me not to always be so caught up on what didn’t go right. I’ve been telling some of these stories over the years, and it was really fun to sit down and not just be at a dinner party telling a story. There’s something about the written word and really figuring out the best way to tell the story and how to get across a certain person’s voice. I really enjoyed the writing. It was the editing that was the hard part!

BLADE: You recall experiences that made you fall in love with the world of theater and music, from the days you would skip class to go see a show or work in regional productions. What was it like returning to those early memories?

SHAIMAN: Wonderful. My few years of doing community theater included productions that were all kids, and many productions with adults, where I was this freaky little 12-year-old who could play show business piano beyond my years. It was just bizarre! Every time a director would introduce me to another cast of adults, they’d be like, “Are you kidding?” I’d go to the piano, and I would sightread the overture to Funny Girl, and everybody said, “Oh, OK!” Those were just joyous, wonderful years, making the kind of friends that are literally still my friends. You’re discovering musical theatre, you’re discovering new friends who have the same likes and dreams, and discovering sex. Oh my god! I lost my virginity at the opening night of Jesus Christ Superstar, so I’m all for community theater!

BLADE: What do you recall from your early experiences watching Broadway shows? Did that open everything up for you?

SHAIMAN: I don’t remember seeing Fiddler on the Roof when I was a kid, but I remember being really enthralled with this one woman’s picture in the souvenir folio — the smile on her face as she’s looking up in the pictures or looking to her father for approval. I always remember zooming in on her and being fascinated by this woman’s face: turns out it was Bette Midler. So my love for Bette Midler began even before I heard her solo records.

Pippin and The Wiz were the first Broadway musicals I saw as a young teenager who had started working in community theater and really wanted to be a part of it. I still remember Pippin with Ben Vereen and all those hands. At the time, I thought getting a seat in the front row was really cool — I’ve learned since that it only hurts your neck, but I remember sitting in the front row at The Wiz as Stephanie Mills sang Home. Oh my god, I can still see it right now. And then I saw Bette Midler in concert, finally, after idolizing her and being a crazed fan who did nothing but listen to her records, dreaming that someday I’d get to play for her. And it all came true even before I turned 18 years old. I just happened to be in the right place at the right time, and met one of her backup singers and became their musical director. I was brought to a Bette Midler rehearsal. I still hadn’t even turned 18, she heard me play and said, “Stick around.” And I’ve stuck around close to 55 years! She’s going to interview me in L.A. at the Academy Museum. Would I have ever thought that Bette Midler would say yes to sitting with me, interviewing me about my life and career?

BLADE: That’s amazing. Has she had a chance to read the book yet?

SHAIMAN: She read it. We just talked yesterday, and she wants to ask the right questions at the event. And she even said to me, “Marc, I wasn’t even aware of all that you’ve done.” We’ve been great friends for all these years, but sometimes months or almost years go by where you’re not completely in touch.

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D.C. LGBTQ sports bar Pitchers listed for sale

Move follows months of challenges for local businesses in wake of Trump actions

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Pitchers is for sale at an undisclosed price. (Washington Blade file photo by Michael Key)

A Santa Monica, Calif.-based commercial real estate company called Zacuto Group has released a 20-page online brochure announcing the sale of the D.C. LGBTQ sports bar Pitchers and its adjoining lesbian bar A League of Her Own.

 The brochure does not disclose the sale price, and Pitchers owner David Perruzza told the Washington Blade he prefers to hold off on talking about his plans to sell the business at this time.

He said the sale price will be disclosed to “those who are interested.” 

“Matthew Luchs and Matt Ambrose of the Zacuto Group have been selected to exclusively market for sale Pitchers D.C., located at 2317 18th Street, NW in Washington, D.C located in the vibrant and nightlife Adams Morgan neighborhood,” the sales brochure states.

 “Since opening its doors in 2018, Pitchers has quickly become the largest and most prominent LGBTQ+ bar in Washington, D.C., serving as a cornerstone of D.C.’s modern queer nightlife scene,” it says, adding, “The 10,000+ SF building designed as a large-scale inclusive LGBTQ+ sports bar and social hub, offering a welcoming environment for the entire community.”

It points out that the Pitchers building, which has two years remaining on its lease and has a five-year renewal option, is a multi-level venue that features five bar areas, “indoor and outdoor seating, and multiple patios, creating a dynamic and flexible layout that supports a wide range of events and high customer volume.”

“Pitchers D.C. is also home to A League of Her Own, the only dedicated lesbian bar in Washington, D.C., further strengthening its role as a vital and inclusive community space at a time when such venues are increasingly rare nationwide,” the brochure says. 

Zacuto Group sales agent Luchs, who serves as the company’s senior vice president, did not immediately respond to a phone message left by the Blade seeking further information, including the sale price. 

News of Perruzza’s decision to sell Pitchers and A League of Her Own follows his Facebook postings last fall saying Pitchers, like other bars in D.C., was adversely impacted by the Trump administration’s deployment of National Guard soldiers on D.C. streets   

In an Oct. 10 Facebook post, Perruzza said he was facing, “probably the worst economy I have seen in a while and everyone in D.C. is dealing with the Trump drama.” He told the Blade in a Nov. 10 interview that Pitchers continued to draw a large customer base, but patrons were not spending as much on drinks.

The Zacuto Group sales brochure says Pitchers currently provides a “rare combination of scale, multiple bars, inclusivity, and established reputation that provides a unique investment opportunity for any buyer seeking a long-term asset with a loyal and consistent customer base,” suggesting that, similar to other D.C. LGBTQ bars, business has returned to normal with less impact from the Trump related issues.

The sales brochure can be accessed here.

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Alexander Skarsgård describes ‘Pillion’ in 3 words: lube, sweat, leather

Highly anticipated film a refreshingly loving look at Dom-sub life

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Harry Melling and Alexander Skarsgård star in ‘Pillion,’ which premieres in the U.S. on Feb. 6. (Photo courtesy of A24)

Whether you’ve seen him in popular HBO series like “True Blood,” “Succession,” or “Big Little Lies,” the dynamic Swedish actor Alexander Skarsgård has that smoldering gaze that immediately draws viewers in. 

Following in the footsteps of his father Stellan, (who just won the Golden Globe for “Sentimental Value”) the Golden Globe, Emmy, and SAG winner Skarsgård continues to be an actor who is fearless in the roles he takes on. 

That courageousness is evident in Skarsgård’s latest film, the BDSM black comedy “Pillion,”which he also executive produces. He plays Ray, the handsome, hyper-dominant leader of a gay bike gang. The film was written and directed by Harry Lighton, and is based on the 2020 novel “Box Hill,” by Adam Mars-Jones. 

“This was a small film by a first time filmmaker and it wasn’t financed when I read it,”  Skarsgård told journalists at a recent awards news conference. “And I felt that, if I could help in any small way of getting it financed, I wanted to, because I thought it was such an incredible screenplay and I believe in Harry Lighton so much as a filmmaker. And it felt tonally unlike anything I’d ever read. It was such an exciting, surprising read.”

Skarsgård was blown away by the quality of the unconventional script. “When I heard BDSM relationship, biker culture, I expected something very different. I didn’t expect it to have so much sweetness and tenderness and awkwardness.”

For the sex scenes and nudity with co-star, Harry Melling — who excels in his portrayal as Ray’s submissive Colin — Skarsgård talked very early on with Lighton about how he wanted to shoot those scenes, and why they were in the film. 

“I often find sex scenes quite boring in movies because a lot of the tension is in the drama leading up to two people hooking up, or several people hooking up, as in our movie. But what I really enjoyed about these scenes — they are all pivotal moments in Colin’s journey and his development. It’s the first time he gets a blowjob. It’s the first time he has sex. It’s the first time he has an orgasm. And these are pivotal moments for him, so they mean a lot. And that made those scenes impactful and important.” 

Skarsgård was happy that Lighton’s script didn’t have gratuitous scenes that shock for the sake of just shocking. “I really appreciated that because I find that when this subculture is portrayed, it’s often dangerous and crazy and wild and something like transgressive.”

He continued: “I really love that Harry wanted it to feel real. It can be sexy and intense, but also quite loving and sweet. And you can have an orgy in the woods, rub up against a Sunday roast with the family. And that kind of feels real.”

One of the obstacles Skarsgård had to work with was Ray’s emotionally distant personality.

“Ray is so enigmatic throughout the film and you obviously never find out anything about him, his past. He doesn’t reveal much. He doesn’t expose himself. And that was a challenge to try to make the character interesting, because that could easily feel quite flat…That was something that I thought quite a lot about in pre production…there are no big dramatic shifts in his arc.”

For the film, Lighton consulted the GMBCC, the UK’s largest LGBT+ biker club, attending their annual meetup at which 80 riders were present. 

“Working with these guys was extraordinary and it brought so much texture and richness to the film to have them present,” said Skarsgård. “They were incredibly sweet and guiding with us — I can’t imagine making this movie without them. I’d go on a road trip with them anytime.”

Added Skarsgård: “To sum up ‘Pillion’ in three words: lube, sweat, and leather. I hope people will connect with Colin and his journey, and come to understand the nuance and complexity of his bond with Ray.”

This year is shaping up to be a busy one for Skarsgård. “Pillion” premieres in select cities on Feb. 6 and then moves into wide release on Feb. 20. After that for Skarsgård is a role in queer ally Charli XCX’s mockumentary, “The Moment,” which premieres at the Sundance Film Festival. HIs sci-fi comedy series,  Apple TV’s “Murderbot,” which he also executive produces, will begin filming its second season. And this weekend, he hosts “Saturday Night Live.”

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