a&e features
Sandra Bernhard on ‘Pose,’ ‘Drag Race,’ the ‘Roseanne’ reboot and more
Stand-up legend dishes freely in advance of Pride week D.C. appearance


SANDRA BERNHARD says finding a new stylist nearly two years ago was ‘a game changer.’ (Photo by Jordan Graham)
Washington Blade presents: Sandra Bernhard ‘Sandemonium’
Shakespeare Theatre Company
Harman Center for the Arts
Friday, June 8
7:30 p.m.
$59-99

SANDRA BERNHARD says she’s always intrigued by the juxtaposition of life in Washington. (Photo by Jordan Graham)
These are dark days and Sandra Bernhard knows it.
“Are you gender neutral? Come face to face with a white supremacist? Swam through a flood? Run from a fire? Observed a chunk of the polar ice cap floating away? …,” the promos for her show “Sandemonium” read.
If so, well, Sandy is here to help.
She returns to Washington next week with a performance presented by the Washington Blade at Shakespeare Theatre Company. She spoke to the Blade by phone May 18 from her home in New York City. Her comments have been slightly edited for length.
WASHINGTON BLADE: You were just in D.C. recently, weren’t you?
SANDRA BERNHARD: Exactly a week ago, actually.
BLADE: Where did you play?
BERNHARD: I was at the City Winery, a new venue and it was fantastic. It was packed and the audience was terrific. We had a great time. I hadn’t been to D.C. in a while and now I’m excited to come back again. I’ll be doing a lot of different material than I did at the City Winery. All the songs will be different and there’ll be a lot of material I didn’t do at City Winery plus a few little gay Pride surprises.
BLADE: This is your show “Sandemonium,” right?
BERNHARD: Well, that’s just a title, you know. I put a new show together every year at Joe’s Pub so I always have a new title, but essentially I’m always writing new material because of doing my (Sirius XM radio) show “Sandyland” every day, I’m constantly curating new material so it’s nice to keep things really fresh and there’ll be some of that and some newer stuff too. It’s always a work in progress.
BLADE: Are you always listening for songs you’d like to cover or do you keep a list or what?
BERNHARD: Kind of a little bit of both because a lot of times I’ll think my set list is all signed, sealed and delivered and then Mitch Caplan, who’s my musical director, we’ve been collaborating for years, he always laughs because literally a day before I’ll be doing a new show, I’ll find a completely different opening song or a totally different closing song because sometimes the spirit just moves me and then I’m trying to find the absolute right thing that really works so I’m always open to something new even if it’s just an hour before the show.
BLADE: You seem really jaded in your standup at times but yet in interviews you sometimes seem rather joyous and upbeat. Is that just naturally your personality? Is it hard to balance the two extremes?
BERNHARD: It depends on the situation. What’s fun about doing “Sandyland” is I’ve been able to tap into more of my positive side, you know, I think that part of my personality, I just think it registers better on radio and I’ll talk about what’s happening politically or gun violence or things that have a lot of emotion around them. But then day to day, I think I’ve been able to access that part of my personality that people have started coming to day in and day out, so it’s a surprise for me and it’s been a great self discovery.
BLADE: How did your radio show come about?
BERNHARD: I’ve been friendly with Andy Cohen for years and about three years ago, he put his channel Radio Andy together and we had lunch and he said, “I have this idea, I don’t know if you’d be into it, but I’ll be doing this channel on Sirius, I’d love for you to do this show.” I said, “Yeah, that sounds perfect,” because I kind of needed a platform and it’s harder and harder to get a talk show quote-unquote off the ground and they usually just don’t work and radio, especially Sirius, has this sense of freedom that you can’t find anywhere. Never once has anybody walked into my studio and said, “No, don’t say that, don’t do that.” Nobody cares. They just let you do whatever you want because after all, it is home to Howard Stern. How can you be more obnoxious or outrageous than Howard Stern? … It’s just been really cool.
BLADE: What’s the hardest part of doing your stage show that the average person wouldn’t ever think about?
BERNHARD: Well, behind the scenes, there’s just always the logistics. You know, like who’s going to the be the person to get your from point A to point B. I have a few different people who work with me in terms of tour manager and I don’t really go out on the road like Stevie Nicks or some big rock band. I do two or three dates a month and sometimes I’m off the road for two months doing other stuff. … It’s sort of a semi-well-oiled machine but sometimes gig to gig it takes a little more or less effort to make sure it goes smoothly.
BLADE: Speaking of Stevie Nicks, what was it like at the (April, 1998) concert for the “Stormy Weather” album? When you’re doing something like that, are the super A-listers like her, Joni Mitchell and so on, are they polite but kind of stand-offish or what?
BERNHARD: Well I’ve known all those ladies for years and I’ve been really lucky in the course of my career to get to be friendly with a lot of people in the music business. Chrissie Hynde is one of my best friends. I’m friends with Debbie Harry, Belinda Carlisle is one of my best friends and I don’t mean to name drop, but you know, music was really my first love. I wanted to be just a singer and I kind of got sidetracked into comedy and I have no regrets because I think the combination of both has been really very fulfilling for me and fun for the audience. But I know Stevie, I know Joni, I know all those people and you know, I don’t always get to see all of them all the time, but in that setting, of course, I’m a little bit intimidated because they’re the best at what they do. I consider myself a decent singer and pretty decent musical person but, you know, I always defer to those people. But they’re always totally supportive and lovely and most people think I have a pretty good voice, so I take that as a nice compliment obviously.
BLADE: Is there anybody of that ilk who is privately much different from their public persona? Maybe somebody who’s actually raunchy or shy or something we’d never guess?
BERNHARD: (laughs) No, nobody’s really raunchy. I think Belinda Carlisle is probably one of the most humble and shy people and so is Debbie Harry. Everybody who is really, really good, they play down what they do in their day-to-day life and almost all of them do something that is very grounding and they’re involved with a lot of different social causes so I don’t know — I just think people who are really talented are usually very complex and interesting and not full of themselves.
BLADE: Was it kind of trippy and surreal to see the “Roseanne” set so faithfully recreated for the reboot?
BERNHARD: Um, yes it was and yet also in a way not because it just sort of felt like, well, it’s not that shocking that it happened again because it was so iconic and it’s been on the air every single day since it went off the air, you know, officially. It’s been in rotation for 20 years so I think it was different than it would have been if it was a show we hadn’t seen at all in 30 or 40 years, then it would have been more weird. So it was and it wasn’t.
BLADE: Does it feel much different on the set this time?
BERNHARD: It feels a little different. There’s new kids and new writers but generally speaking, you know, Laurie Metcalf and all the main people, John Goodman, it has that continuity so it didn’t feel that much different. I think people have all evolved a lot emotionally and spiritually so I think things are a little more relaxed than they were maybe early on.
BLADE: What’s Roseanne like between takes? Is she high strung or kind of chill?
BERNHARD: She’s pretty chill. She gets tired out pretty easily you know. She’s not like a hard-charging person so I think sometimes she just needs to like, escape and regroup a little and she’ll kind of keep to herself, but you know, when she’s around, she’s friendly, she’s nice to everybody.
BLADE: How did you first hear of the reboot and are you going to be in more of it or do you know yet?
BERNHARD: Well, I sort of read about it like everybody else to be perfectly honest with you. And then I reached out to Sara Gilbert who was sort or rebooting the whole project and then I didn’t hear back from her for quite a while and then all of a sudden out of the clear blue, I did hear back from her and that’s sort of when it all came together for the last episode. It was the last episode they shot, even though it just aired a couple weeks ago. I’m sure they’ll have me back at least one or two more times during the next go-around, but they haven’t committed to anything yet. (Bernhard’s Blade interview occurred prior to the news this week that the “Roseanne” reboot was cancelled.)
BLADE: Now that it’s had a long time to sink in, what impact do you think your (lesbian/bi) storyline and the kiss and all that had culturally? Do you think it reached more people because of “Roseanne’s” demographic?
BERNHARD: Yeah, I think it reached everybody because the average weekly viewership of the show in its prime was 15-20 million … so I think it had a huge impact and opened the doors for a lot of different conversations about sexuality and, you know, certainly it’s gone to places nobody could have imagined and that’s a cool thing.
BLADE: Does Roseanne’s Trump support bother you, either on the show or in real life?
BERNHARD: I’m not happy about it. I think if it was strictly Roseanne the character, it would have been understandable but even then, not really because Roseanne and Dan were always liberals and he was a union guy and so none of it really makes sense at all and I think when they come back, I think it’s probably less political. I just read an article and the president of ABC, who’s a woman of color, she was saying, “No, it’s not gonna be this way next time around.” Because what’s the point of it? I mean, oh, to show people that Muslims are people too? Do we really need that primer in 2018? Really? I would hope people are smart enough and open enough to know that there are people in every path of life that are good and bad. I mean, how many more conversations do we need to have about this shit? I just don’t think it really resonates to me and I don’t think it resonates with anybody because I would hope people are intelligent enough to figure that out on their own.
BLADE: I heard Carol Burnett say recently that shows take way longer to tape than they did back in the ’60s and ‘70s. She was saying on her show, it was zip-zip-zip, they’d be done in a few hours and go home, now it’s like a 10-hour ordeal when she guests on something. How long is a normal day when you’re taping something?
BERNHARD: They’re all totally different. If it’s a four-camera show, which “Roseanne” is, in other words, you’re shooting in front of a live audience, it’s really like preparing a little play every week and it can be a Wednesday or a Monday, it depends on the shoot. But you start with a table reading and work out sort of like what needs to get changed out initially. Then you go to the set, you do a run through and then as the week progresses you do more and more rehearsals and you start blocking and the longest day on “Roseanne” is the shoot day. You usually get there by 11 or 12 and they start shooting by 6 and you’re kind of done by 8 or 9. Roseanne doesn’t like to be around for hours and hours, nobody does. If you’re shooting single camera, that’s a whole different ball game because you can be there for 12-14 hours because you’re setting up every shot and it’s a much more frustrating experience.
BLADE: You’ve been on so many shows — “DTLA,” “Brooklyn Nine-Nine,” “2 Broke Girls.” Are there any you felt had more life in them or you wish would have really taken off?
BERNHARD: Well I certainly would have liked more “Brooklyn Nine-Nine” because it was really fun playing Chelsea Peretti’s mom and I think she was a fun, blowsy, kooky character but now that they’ve been picked up by NBC, maybe I’ll get a chance to reprise the role. “2 Broke Girls” was great because they had a five-episode arc and I got to fulfill that character’s sort of destiny on that show. I should also tell you that this coming Monday and Tuesday I’m shooting a role on the new show “Pose,” the new Ryan Murphy show so I’m really excited about that. I’m playing a nurse in an AIDS ward in 1986 or ’88 and, you know, having lost a lot of friends during the AIDS crisis and having visited many friends in hospitals, it’s sort of a fitting role that I get to play opposite Billy Porter who’s a terrific actor and supposedly it’s a recurring role. So I’m really excited. It’s the first time I’ve done a Ryan Murphy project so I’m excited about it.
BLADE: I know you have a few things in development yourself. Is it any harder or easier to get a green light in Hollywood than it was, say, 20 years ago?
BERNHARD: It’s about the same. I mean there’s certainly more outlets for things. I have a couple of scripted projects but now two of the shows are back on hold again but one of them jumped ahead of the pack and I have a very well-known producer involved with it so it seems to be progressing and hopefully at some point this summer I’ll be pitching it to some of the different outlets. I’m keeping my fingers crossed. This is a little broader, kind of comedy than I’m normally, you know, thought of, so I’m kind of excited about that because I think it’s very accessible but still cutting edge and funny so we’ll see.
BLADE: What’s your favorite venue for your live show?
BERNHARD: Well I’d have to say Joe’s Pub. It’s my incubator for new material and I’ve done shows there now for well over 10 years. I’ve kind of lost track. People just come there, it’s intimate and it’s just the right setting for doing something new and people are very, you know, supportive and it just creates a vibe. I always do it the day after Christmas to New Year’s Eve and it kind of sets the tone for the end of the year and the beginning of the year. … It’s nice to have a little launching pad for everything.
BLADE: You don’t mind working that time of year? Most people like to lay low that week.
BERNHARD: No, I prefer it actually. I don’t love sitting around during the holidays and I certainly wouldn’t want to travel at that time. It’s crazy. I’d rather be on stage performing and engaged, then when it’s done, that’s when I like to go away when everybody else is going back to school and work.
BLADE: How are (partner) Sara and (daughter) Cicely?
BERNHARD: They’re great, terrific. They’re both super busy. Sara is doing a project for a magazine called Fast Company and Cicely just got home from college. She’s going to be doing an internship and working and volunteering this summer so everybody is fully engaged.
BLADE: Did you give up Kabbalah?
BERNHARD: No, but I do it on my own. I don’t go there to the center anymore. I go to a synagogue here in New York where there’s a very cool young rabbi and his wife and it’s just much less crazy. The scene there is more chill.
BLADE: I’ve heard you say you like the more traditional prayers and songs and such. I’m just wondering because it’s the same thing in Christianity — I want the progressive, gay-friendly churches and it’s great, but the music and prayers suck.
BERNHARD: I grew up conservative. It’s truly a crap shoot. I found this one place here in New York that’s totally LGBT friendly and even though it’s not a gay synagogue, there are a lot of gay people. … It’s a great mix and the kind of people I grew up with … so it reminds me of my family and there’s all these groovy young people and gay people and it’s very fulfilling to see everybody getting along and nobody judging anybody. That’s how I think the world should be. I don’t think people should just have to be with their own people all the time. I think we should all be able to be together and embrace the difference and have fun together.
BLADE: I sense you may be more of a traditionalist than people would guess. Are you?
BERNHARD: I like continuity in my life and day to day, I like things that are sort of mundane in a way, things that are familiar. I guess that’s why I embrace certain aspects of my religion. It’s just sort of the way I roll in life.
BLADE: Do you make it a point to put yourself out there more than you might otherwise be inclined to generate stuff you can use in your comedy?
BERNHARD: No, that happens naturally. There’s no way you could put yourself in a situation hoping something comes out of it because nothing ever does. It’s always when you least expect it. Literally shit happens when I’m in the grocery store or I’m trying to get a taxi or just my reaction to things in conversations with Sara, she’s really funny. We’ll sort of riff off each other and I’ll run to my notes and write things down. It just flows naturally.
BLADE: Have you ever been invited to be a guest judge on “RuPaul’s Drag Race”?
BERNHARD: No, I have not darling and I know RuPaul from the day. I don’t know why Miss RuPaul’s so shady with me ‘cause I was on RuPaul’s show on VH1 Hanukkah special and now Ru gets so shady with me and I don’t know why ‘cause I’ve never had any problem with Ru. I think I should have been one of the first judges because listen, “Without You I’m Nothing,” the film, all my background singers are drag queens. I embraced the drag world when I was like 19 years old. … I was hip to the drag world in the ‘70s when I was very, very young, so for me it’s sort of a natural but what the fuck? But whatever. I was a groundbreaking supporter of drag and every other kind of interesting gay, you know, anomaly, so I don’t have anything to worry about.
BLADE: What did you think of Michelle Wolf’s bit at the Correspondents’ Dinner?
BERNHARD: I thought it was brilliant. I thought she worked her ass off. It was A-list material. It was fucking brilliant. She went for broke and I thought her whole approach to taking down, you know, the journalists on both sides was brilliant and I thought what she said about smoky eye was fucking genius. She wasn’t trashing (Sarah Huckabee Sanders) for her looks, she was just saying how brilliant that she takes the ashes of lies and makes a smoky eye. How anybody could have interpreted that as saying she was ugly — no, you’re hearing that because is ugly is what’s going on inside the White House and it’s a reflection of people who don’t want to fucking face it. And the moral bankruptcy of this country and this particular moment and people don’t want to hear about it, even on the left, even that the Democrats have not fucking, you know, been able to squelch this thing as well, they should have a certain culpability in it. And that’s just the reality. So yeah, she fucking blew the roof off the joint.
BLADE: Do you enjoy doing “The Wendy Williams Show”?
BERNHARD: I love doing Wendy’s show. She’s always great, she loves me, she’s supportive, she’s fun, she’s not intrusive. I do it, I kiss her, we’re done and she’s totally cool.
BLADE: How do you stay so thin? Do you work at it or does it come naturally?
BERNHARD: Well I’m naturally skinny and then as I’ve aged, and once I had Cicely my body shifted a little bit. Now I gotta work on it but I think like Catherine Deneuve says, at a certain point you gotta keep an extra 10 pounds on your ass to make sure your face looks good and that’s the truth. … I’m 5’10” so that just makes a big difference in how the weight falls and I’ve just been lucky but yeah, of course I’m not as skinny and trim as when, you know, I was 25-30 or even 40 but I still think I look pretty good and I take excellent care of myself.
BLADE: Do you have jokes that are like your greatest hits people expect to hear?
BERNHARD: There’s a few lines. Like my Mom’s line about there must have been dust on those mints, I think that’s the one that’s most recognizable and it’s a great honor for my Mom. She passed away four years ago and she always got a kick out of that.
BLADE: How do you keep track of all your material?
BERNHARD: Most of it is printed out. I have, like, these folders of different shows I’ve done. Some are in storage in L.A., some are in script form like “Without You I’m Nothing” or “I’m Still Here, Damn It!” The shows that were more theatrical are in script form. But then shows where I’m more like going all all over the place, they’re written out on pads and I have them in various folders jammed into my closet.
BLADE: It seems like you have a nice level of fame where you can still go out to dinner and go shopping and not be hounded to death. Are people ever obnoxious when they recognize you?
BERNHARD: No, almost never. Sometimes they want to talk a little bit or say hi and take a quick picture but people are very cool with it. I’m always flattered when they say nice things. I ride the subway and feel very protected and safe maneuvering around and getting to do what I want to do. I’m really glad my life is like that.
BLADE: This isn’t really a question but whenever I see “Truth or Dare” and that dancer, I think Oliver, is fumbling with your name, I just want to scream, “It’s Bernhard — it’s not that hard.”
BERNHARD: Well, you know, it was probably just his way of pulling focus and getting a little extra attention in that huge miasma of ego that everybody was, you know, floating around in. I hope he’s OK. I’m sure he hasn’t been able to sustain that.
BLADE: Well, you know they did a reunion movie with all those dancers.
BERNHARD: Yeah, I know. I need to see that. I read about it but I didn’t see it yet.
BLADE: Are you a clotheshorse?
BERNHARD: Well I’m lucky, I get to borrow a lot of things from designers and that’s great because once you’ve worn something and been photographed a lot, you can’t really wear it again anyway so it’s nice to be able to give things back and I always try to give it back in excellent shape. I have a wonderful stylist. We’ve been working together about a year and a half, Scott Allgauer, he always pulls me terrific stuff and that’s sort of been a game changer.
BLADE: Is he gay?
BERNHARD: He is!
BLADE: Do you watch much TV yourself? What do you like?
BERNHARD: I always watch “Homeland,” that season just ended. Oh God, you know — it’s so funny, you kind of forget what you watch once it’s off the air. I like “Veep.” I like “The Affair.” I watch “Grace and Frankie” ‘cause I love Lily and Jane. I watched a great show called “Babylon Berlin” that was on Netflix. A German show, very well done. I watch a lot of tennis. I’m a Venus and Serena acolyte.
BLADE: Are you a “Handmaid’s Tale” person?
BERNHARD: I’m not. I literally can’t stomach it. It’s too much for me. It’s so painful and horrifying. I dip in and out but I can’t binge watch it. I did love “Top of the Lake” with Elisabeth Moss, which was great. And I loved “Big Little Lies” on HBO. That was one of my favorite shows last year.
BLADE: Do you have a favorite venue to play in D.C. or do they all sort of run together?
BERNHARD: No, they don’t really run together. I’ve played the Howard a couple times and the George Washington campus. I’ve been playing D.C. since the beginning of my career way back some comedy club that I doubt even exists anymore. But it’s like any town. You get a sense of it but unless you really spend time there, you don’t really know what it’s like. I played the JCC for a month, that was awhile ago. … D.C. is amazing. When you’re in the eye of the storm by the Mall and you see all the monuments, you think, “God, this is amazing.” Then you go out to the suburbs and you’re like, “Where is everything?” It’s kind of a crazy, mixed-up bag there. But I’m looking forward to coming back for Pride.
a&e features
Peppermint thrives in the spotlight
In exclusive interview, she talks Netflix show — and the need to resist Trump’s attacks

As an entertainer, there’s not much that Peppermint hasn’t done. She’s a singer, actor, songwriter, reality TV personality, drag queen, podcaster and the list goes on. Most importantly, as an activist she has been an invaluable role model for the trans, queer, and Black communities.
She’s a trailblazer who boasts an impressive list of ‘firsts.’ She is the first out trans contestant to be cast on “RuPaul’s Drag Race” (Season 9). She is the first trans woman to originate a principal musical role for Broadway’s “Head Over Heels.” She was also the first trans woman to compete in the runaway hit series “Traitors,” on Peacock, and she is the ACLU’s first-ever Artist Ambassador for Trans Justice. Her accolades are a true testament of the courage it took for Peppermint to live her authentic self.
We caught up with Peppermint to chat about her activism, taking on bigger roles on screen, our current political and social climate and life beyond the lens. For Peppermint, coming out as trans was not just a moment of strength—it was a necessity.
“It unfolded exactly as I had imagined it in terms of just feeling good and secure about who I am. I was in so much pain and sort of misery and anguish because I wasn’t able to live as free as I wanted to and that I knew that other people do when they just wake up. They get dressed, they walk out the door and they live their lives. Being able to live as your authentic self without fear of being persecuted by other people or by the government is essential to being healthy,” Peppermint tells the Blade in an exclusive interview.
“I was not able to imagine any other life. I remember saying to myself, ‘If I can’t imagine a life where I’m out and free and feeling secure and confident and left alone, then I don’t even want to imagine any kind of a life in the future,’” says Peppermint.
Recently, Peppermint returned for season 2 of Netflix’s comedy “Survival of the Thickest.” She added some spice and kick to the first season in her role as a drag bar owner. This time around, her character moves center stage, as her engagement and wedding become a major plot line in the show. Her expanded role and high-profile trans representation come at just the right time.
“It’s the largest acting role I’ve ever had in a television show, which my acting degree thanks me. It feels right on time, in a day where they’re rolling back trans rights and wanting to reduce DEI and make sure that we are limited from encouraging companies, corporations, industries, and institutions from not only featuring us, but supporting us, or even talking about us, or even referencing us.
“It feels great to have something that we can offer up as resistance. You can try to moralize, but it’s tougher to legislate art. So it feels like this is right on time and I’m just really grateful that they gave me a chance and that they gave my character a chance to tell a greater story.
Peppermint’s expanded role also accompanies a boom in queer representation in Black-powered media. Networks like BET and Starz and producers like Tyler Perry, are now regularly showcasing queer Black folks in main story lines. What does Peppermint think is fueling this increased inclusion?
“Queer folks are not new and queer Black folks are not new and Black folks know that. Every Black person knows at least one person who is queer. We are everywhere. We have not always been at the forefront in a lot of storytelling, that’s true, and that’s the part that’s new. It’s Hollywood taking us from the place where they usually have held us Black, queer folks in the makeup room, or as the prostitute, as an extra—not that there’s anything wrong with sex work or playing a background performer. I’ve played the best of the hookers! But those [roles] are very limiting.
“Hollywood has not historically done and still does not do a very good job of, including the voices of the stories that they make money [on]. And I think they’re realizing [the need] to be inclusive of our stories and our experiences, because for a long time it was just our stories without our actual experiences. It’s also exciting. It’s dramatic. It makes money. And they’re seeing that. So I think they’re just dipping their toes in. I think that they’re going to realize that balance means having us there in the room.”
Peppermint’s activism is tireless. She has raised more than six figures for prominent LGBTQ rights groups, she continues to speak around the nation, appears regularly on major media outlets addressing trans and LGBTQ issues and has been honored by GLAAD, World of Wonder, Out magazine, Variety, Condé Nast and more—all while appearing on screen and onstage in a long list of credits.
Now, under the Trump administration, she doesn’t have time to take a breath.
“I wouldn’t be able to do it if it weren’t second nature for me. Of course, there are ups and downs with being involved with any social issue or conversation and politics. But I am, for now, energized by it. It’s not like I’m energized by like, ‘Ooh, I just love this subject!’ right? It’s like, ‘Oh, we’re still being discriminated against, we gotta go and fight.’
“That’s just what it is. I get energy because I feel like we are quite literally fighting for our lives. I know that is hyperbole in some regards, but they are limiting access to things like housing, healthcare, job security and not having identification. Passport regulations are being put in a blender.”
Peppermint also mentions her thoughts on the unfair mandates to remove trans service members and revoke the rights and resources from the veterans who worked their whole lives to fight for this country.
“When you strip all these things away, it makes it really difficult for people to have a life and I know that that is what they’re doing. When I look around and see that that is what is at stake, I certainly feel like I’m fighting for my life. And that’s energizing.
“The only thing that would be the most rewarding besides waking up in a utopia and suddenly we’re all equal and we’re not discriminating against each other—which probably is not happening this year—is to be able to be involved in a project like this, where we can create that world. It’s also being built by people who are a part of that story in real life and care about it in real life.”
Peppermint is clear on her point that now is the time for all of the letters of the LGBTQ community to come together. Everyone who is trans and queer should be joining the fight against the issues that affect us all.
“Just trust us and understand that our experiences are tied together. That is how and why we are discriminated against in the way[s] that we are. The people who discriminate—just like how they can’t really distinguish between somebody who’s Dominican and somebody who’s African American — you’re Black when you’re getting pulled over. We are discriminated against in much the same way. It’s the same with being trans or queer or gender non-conforming or bi, we all have our own experiences and they should be honored.
“When laws are being created to harm us, we need to band together, because none of y’all asses is gonna be able to stop them from getting rid of marriage equality—which is next. If you roll the tape back to three years ago when somebody was trying to ask me about drag queen bans on readings in school, I was saying they’re coming for trans rights, which comes for bodily autonomy and abortion rights, which comes for gay marriage rights. Those three things will be wiped out.
Peppermint doesn’t take a pause to get fired up and call gay folk out in their obligation to return the favor to the Black trans community.
She shares with us her final thoughts.
“You cis-gender homosexuals need to stand the fuck up and understand that we are standing in front of you. It’s very difficult to understand this and know this, but so many of the rights that we have were hard fought and won by protest and by people fighting very hard for them. And many of those people in every single instance from the suffrage movement, obviously Civil Rights, queer rights, the AIDS and HIV movement—Black queer people have been there the entire time. Trans people have always been a part of that story, including Stonewall. Yes, we are using different terminology. Yes, we have different lenses to view things through, but let me tell you, if you allow us to be sacrificed before you see us go off the side, you will realize that your foot is shackled to our left foot. So, you better stand the fuck up!”
Peppermint for president!
a&e features
Tristan Schukraft on keeping queer spaces thriving
New owner of LA’s Abbey expands holdings to Fire Island, Mexico

LOS ANGELES — Like the chatter about Willy Wonka and his Chocolate Factory, the West Hollywood community here started to whisper about the man who was going to be taking over the world-famous Abbey, a landmark in Los Angeles’s queer nightlife scene. Rumors were put to rest when it was announced that entrepreneur Tristan Schukraft would be taking over the legacy created by Abbey founder David Cooley. All eyes are on him.
For those of us who were there for the re-opening of The Abbey, when the torch was officially passed, all qualms about the new regime went away as it was clear the club was in good hands and that the spirit behind the Abbey would forge on. Cher, Ricky Martin, Bianca del Rio, Jean Smart, and many other celebrities rubbed shoulders with veteran patrons, and the evening was magical and a throwback to the nightclub atmosphere pre-COVID.
The much-talked-about purchase of the Abbey was just the beginning for Schukraft. It was also announced that this business impresario was set to purchase the commercial district of Fire Island, as well as projects launching in Mexico and Puerto Rico. What was he up to? Tristan sat down with the Blade to chat about it all.
“We’re at a time right now when the last generation of LGBT entrepreneurs and founders are all in their 60s and they’re retiring. And if somebody doesn’t come in and buy these places, we’re going to lose our queer spaces.”
Tristan wasn’t looking for more projects, but he recounts what happened in Puerto Rico. The Atlantic Beach Hotel was the gay destination spot and the place to party on Sundays, facing the gay beach. A new owner came in and made it a straight hotel, effectively taking away a place of fellowship and history for the queer community. Thankfully, the property is gay again, now branded as the Tryst and part of Schukraft’s portfolio with locations in Puerto Vallarta and Fire Island.
“If that happens with the Abbey and West Hollywood, it’s like Bloomingdale’s in a mall. It’s kind of like a domino effect. So that’s really what it is all about for me at this point. It has become a passion project, and I think now more than ever, it’s really important.”
Tristan is fortifying spaces for the queer community at a time when the current administration is trying to silence the LGBTQ+ community. The timing is not lost on him.
“I thought my mission was important before, and in the last couple of months, it’s become even more important. I don’t know why there’s this effort to erase us from public life, but we’ve always been here. We’re going to continue to be here, and it brings even more energy and motivation for me to make sure the spaces that I have now and even additional venues are protected going in the future.”
The gay community is not always welcoming to fresh faces and new ideas. Schukraft’s takeover of the Abbey and Fire Island has not come without criticism. Who is this man, and how dare he create a monopoly? As Schukraft knows, there will always be mean girls ready to talk. In his eyes, if someone can come in and preserve and advance spaces for the queer community, why would we oppose that?
“I think the community should be really appreciative. We, as a community, now, more than ever, should stand together in solidarity and not pick each other apart.”
As far as the Abbey is concerned, Schukraft is excited about the changes to come. Being a perfectionist, he wants everything to be aligned, clean, and streamlined. There will be changes made to the DJ and dance booth, making way for a long list of celebrity pop-ups and performances. But his promise to the community is that it will continue to be the place to be, a place for the community to come together, for at least another 33 years.
“We’re going to build on the Abbey’s rich heritage as not only a place to go at night and party but a place to go in the afternoon and have lunch. That’s what David Cooley did that no others did before, is he brought the gay bar outside, and I love that.”
Even with talk of a possible decline in West Hollywood’s nightlife, Schukraft maintains that though the industry may have its challenges, especially since COVID, the Abbey and nightlife will continue to thrive and grow.
“I’m really encouraged by all the new ownership in [nightlife] because we need another generation to continue on. I’d be more concerned if everybody was still in their sixties and not letting go.”
In his opinion, apps like Grindr have not killed nightlife.
“Sometimes you like to order out, and sometimes you like to go out, and sometimes you like to order in, right? There’s nothing that really replaces that real human interaction, and more importantly, as we know, a lot of times our family is our friends, they’re our adopted family.
Sometimes you meet them online, but you really meet them going out to bars and meeting like-minded people. At the Abbey, every now and then, there’s that person who’s kind of building up that courage to go inside and has no wingman, doesn’t have any gay friends. So it’s really important that these spaces are fun, to eat, drink, and party. But they’re really important for the next generation to find their true identity and their new family.”
There has also been criticism that West Hollywood has become elitist and not accessible to everyone in the community. Schukraft believes otherwise. West Hollywood is a varied part of queer nightlife as a whole.
“West Hollywood used to be the only gay neighborhood, and now you’ve got Silver Lake and you’ve got parts of Downtown, which is really good because L.A., is a huge place. It’s nice to have different neighborhoods, and each offers its own flavor and personality.”
Staunch in his belief in his many projects, he is not afraid to talk about hot topics in the community, especially as they pertain to the Abbey. As anyone who goes to the Abbey on a busy night can attest to, the crowd is very diverse and inclusive. Some in the community have started to complain that gay bars are no longer for the gay community, but are succumbing to our straight visitors.
Schukraft explains: “We’re a victim of our own success. I think it’s great that we don’t need to hide in the dark shadows or in a hole-in-the-wall gay bar. I’m happy about the acceptance. I started Tryst Hotels, which is the first gay hotel. We’re not hetero-friendly, we’re not gay-friendly. We’re a gay hotel and everyone is welcome. I think as long as we don’t change our behavior or the environment in general at the Abbey, and if you want to party with us, the more than merrier.”
Schukraft’s message to the community?
“These are kind of dangerous times, right? The rights that we fought for are being taken away and are being challenged. We’re trying to be erased from public life. There could be mean girls, but we, as a community, need to stick together and unite, and make sure those protections and our identity aren’t erased. And even though you’re having a drink at a gay bar, and it seems insignificant, you’re supporting gay businesses and places for the next generation.”
a&e features
Creator Max Mutchnick on inspirations for ‘Mid-Century Modern’
Real-life friendships and loss inform plot of new Hulu show

It’s been a long time – maybe 25 years when “Will & Grace” debuted – since there’s been so much excitement about a new, queer sitcom premiering. “Mid-Century Modern,” which debuted on Hulu last week, is the creation of Max Mutchnick and David Kohan, the gay men who were also behind “Will & Grace.”
Set in Palm Springs, Calif., following the death of the one of their closest friends, three gay men gather to mourn. Swept up in the emotions of the moment, Bunny (Nathan Lane) suggests that Atlanta-based flight attendant Jerry (Matt Bomer) and New York-based fashion editor Arthur (Nathan Lee Graham) move into the mid-century modern home he shares with his mother Sybil (the late Linda Lavin). Over the course of the first season’s 10 episodes, hilarity ensues. That is, except for the episode in which they address Sybil’s passing. The three male leads are all fabulous, and the ensemble cast, including Pamela Adlon as Bunny’s sister Mindy, and the stellar line-up of guest stars, such as Jesse Tyler Ferguson, Vanessa Bayer, Richard Kind, and Cheri Oteri, keep humor buzzing. Shortly before the premiere of “Mid-Century Modern,” Mutchnick made time for an interview with the Blade.
BLADE: I’d like to begin by saying it’s always a delight to speak to a fellow Emerson College alum. In ways would you say that Emerson impacted your professional and creative life?
MAX MUTCHNICK: I think Emerson was the first place that reflected back to me that my voice, my thoughts were good, and they were worth listening to. I developed a confidence at Emerson that did not exist in my body and soul. It was a collection of a lot of things that took place in Boston, but I mean we can just put it all under the Emerson umbrella.
BLADE: Before “Will & Grace,” you co-created the NBC sitcom “Boston Common,” which starred fellow Emerson alum Anthony Clark. Is it important for you to maintain those kinds of alumni relationships?
MUTCHNICK: Because Emersonians are such scrappy little monkeys and they end up being everywhere in the world, you can’t help but work with someone from Emerson at some point in your career. I’m certainly more inclined to engage with someone from Emerson once I learn that they went to my alma mater. For me, it has much more to do with history and loyalty. I don’t think of myself as one of those guys that says, “Loyalty means a lot to me. I’m someone that really leans into history.” It’s just what my life and career turned out to be. The longer I worked with people and the more often I worked with them, the safer that I felt, which means that I was more creative and that’s the name of the game. I’ve got to be as comfortable as possible so I can be as creative as possible. If that means that a person from Emerson is in the room, so be it. (Costume designer) Lori Eskowitz would be the Emerson version. And then (writer and actor) Dan Bucatinsky would be another version. When I’m around them for a long time, that’s when the best stuff comes.
BLADE: Relationships are important. On that subject, your new Hulu sitcom “Mid-Century Modern” is about the longstanding friendship among three friends, Bunny (Nathan Lane), Jerry (Matt Bomer), and Arthur (Nathan Lee Graham). Do you have a friendship like the one shared by these three men?
MUTCHNICK: I’m absolutely engaged in a real version of what we’re projecting on the show. I have that in my life. I cannot say that I’m Jerry in any way, but the one thing that we do have in common is that in my group, I’m the young one. But I think that that’s very common in these families that we create. There’s usually a young one. Our culture is built on learning from our elders. I didn’t have a father growing up, so maybe that made me that much more inclined to seek out older, wiser, funnier, meaner friends. I mean the reason why you’re looking at a mouthful of straight, white teeth is because one of those old bitches sat across from me about 25 years ago at a diner and said, “Girl, your teeth are a disaster, and you need to get that fixed immediately.” What did I know? I was just a kid from Chicago with two nickels in my pocket. But I found three nickels and I went and had new teeth put in my head. But that came from one of my dearest in the group.
BLADE: Do you think that calling “Mid-Century Modern” a gay “Golden Girls” is a fair description?
MUTCHNICK: No. I think the gay “Golden Girls” was really just used as a tool to pitch the show quickly. We have an expression in town, which is “give me the elevator pitch,” because nobody has an attention span. The fastest way you can tell someone what David (Kohan) and I wanted to write, was to say, “It’s gay Golden Girls.” When you say that to somebody, then they say, “OK, sit down now, tell me more.” We did that and then we started to dive into the show and realized pretty quickly that it’s not the gay “Golden Girls.” No disrespect to the “Golden Girls.” It’s a masterpiece.
BLADE: “Mid-Century Modern” is set in Palm Springs. I’m based in Fort Lauderdale, a few blocks south of Wilton Manors, and I was wondering if that gay enclave was ever in consideration for the setting, or was it always going to be in Palm Springs?
MUTCHNICK: You just asked a really incredible question! Because, during COVID, Matt Bomer and I used to walk, because we live close by. We had a little walking group of a few gay gentlemen. On one of those walks, Matt proposed a comedy set in Wilton Manors. He said it would be great to title the show “Wilton Manors.” I will tell you that in the building blocks of what got us to “Mid-Century Modern,” Wilton Manors, and that suggestion from Matt Bomer on our COVID walks, was part of it.
BLADE: Is Sybil, played by the late Linda Lavin, modeled after a mother you know?
MUTCHNICK: Rhea Kohan (mother of David and Jenji). When we met with Linda for the first time over Zoom, when she was abroad, David and I explained to her that this was all based on Rhea Kohan. In fact, some of the lines that she (Sybil) speaks in the pilot are the words that Jenji Kohan spoke about her mother in her eulogy at the funeral because it really summed up what the character was all about. Yes, it’s very much based on someone.
BLADE: The Donny Osmond jokes in the second episode of “Mid-Century Modern” reminded me of the Barry Manilow “fanilows” on “Will & Grace.” Do you know if Donny is aware that he’s featured in the show?
MUTCHNICK: I don’t. To tell you the truth, the “fanilow” episode was written when I was not on the show. I was on a forced hiatus, thanks to Jeff Zucker. That was a show that I was not part of. We don’t really work that way. The Donny Osmond thing came more from Matt’s character being a Mormon, and also one of the writers. It’s very important to mention that the writing room at “Mid-Century Modern,” is (made up of) wonderful and diverse and colorful incredible humans – one of them is an old, white, Irish guy named Don Roos who’s brilliant…
BLADE: …he’s Dan Bucatinsky’s husband.
MUTCHNICK: Right! Dan is also part of the writing room. But I believe it was Don who had a thing for Donny, and that’s where it comes from. I don’t know if Donny has any awareness. The only thing I care about when we turn in an episode like that is I just want to hear from legal that we’re approved.
BLADE: “Mid-Century Modern” also includes opportunities for the singers in the cast. Linda Lavin sang the Jerome Kern/Ira Gershwin tune “Long Ago (And Far Away)” and Nathan Lane and the guys sang “He Had It Coming” from “Chicago.” Was it important to give them the chance to exercise those muscles?
MUTCHNICK: I don’t think it was. I think it really is just the managers’ choice. David Kohan and I like that kind of stuff, so we write that kind of stuff. But by no means was there an edict to write that. We know what our cast is capable of, and we will absolutely exploit that if we’re lucky enough to have a second season. I have a funky relationship with the song “Long Ago (And Far Away).” It doesn’t float my boat, but everybody else loved it. We run a meritocracy, and the best idea will out. That’s how that song ended up being in the show. I far prefer the recording of Linda singing “I’ll Be Seeing You” over her montage in episode eight, “Here’s To You, Mrs. Schneiderman.” We were just lucky that Linda had recorded that. That recording was something that she had done and sent to somebody during COVID because she was held up in her apartment. That’s what motivated her to make that video and send it. That’s how we were able to use that audio.
BLADE: Being on a streaming service like Hulu allows for characters to say things they might not get away with on network TV, including a foreskin joke, as well as Sybil’s propensity for cursing.
MUTCHNICK: And the third line in the show is about him looking like a “reluctant bottom.” I don’t think that’s something you’re going to see on ABC anytime soon. David and I liked the opportunity to open up the language of this show because it might possibly open the door to bringing people…I’m going to mix metaphors…into the tent that have never been there before. A generation that writes off a sitcom because that language and that type of comedy isn’t the way that they sound. One of the gifts of doing this show on Hulu is that we get to write dialogue that sounds a little bit more like you and I sound. As always, we don’t want to do anything just to do it.
BLADE: It didn’t feel that way.
MUTCHNICK: It’s there when it’s right. [Laughs] I want to have a shirt made with Linda’s line, as her mother always used to say, “Time is a cunt.”
BLADE: “Mid-Century Modern” also utilizes a lot of Jewish humor. How important is it for you to include that at this time when there is a measurable rise in anti-Semitism?
MUTCHNICK: I think it’s important, but I don’t think it’s the reason why we did it. We tried very hard to not write from a place of teaching or preaching. We really are just writing about the stuff that makes us laugh. One of the things that makes something better and something that you can invest in is if it’s more specific. We’re creating a character whose name is Bunny Schneiderman and his mother’s name is Sybil and they made their money in a family-run business, it gets Jewy, and we’re not going to shy away from it. But we’re definitely not going to address what’s going on in the world. That doesn’t mean I don’t find it very upsetting, but I’m writing always from the point of view of entertaining the largest number of people that I can every week.
BLADE: “Mid-Century Modern” has a fantastic roster of guest stars including Jesse Tyler Ferguson, Vanessa Bayer, Billie Lourd, Cheri Oteri, Richard Kind, Rhea Perlman, and Judd Hirsch. Are there plans to continue that in future seasons?
MUTCHNICK: Yes. As I keep saying, if we’re so lucky that we get to continue, I don’t want to do “The Love Boat.” Those are fine comic actors, so I don’t think it feels like that. But if we get to keep going, what I want to do is broaden the world because that gives us more to write about. I want to start to introduce characters that are auxiliary to the individuals. I want to start to meet Arthur’s family, so we can return to people. I want to introduce other neighbors, and different types of gay men because we come in so many different flavors. I think that we should do that only because I’m sure it’s what your life is and it’s what my life is. I’ve got a lot of different types. So, yes, we will be doing more.
BLADE: Finally, Linda Lavin passed away in December 2024, and in a later episode, the subject of her character Sybil’s passing is handled sensitively, including the humorous parts.
MUTCHNICK: We knew we had a tall order. We suffered an incredible loss in the middle of making this comedy. One of the reasons why I think this show works is because we are surrounded by a lot of really talented people. Jim Burrows and Ryan Murphy, to name two. Ryan played a very big role in telling us that it was important that we address this, that we address it immediately. That we show the world and the show goes on. That wasn’t my instinct because I was so inside the grief of losing a friend, because she really was. It wasn’t like one of those showbizzy-type relationships. And this is who she was, by the way, to everybody at the show. It was the way that we decided to go. Let’s write this now. Let’s not put this at the end of the season. Let’s not satellite her in. Let’s not “Darren Stevens” the character, which is something we would never do. The other thing that Jim Burrows made very clear to us was the import of the comedy. You have to write something that starts exactly in the place that these shows start. A set comedy piece that takes place in the kitchen. Because for David and me, as writers, we said we just want to tell the truth. That’s what we want to do with this episode and that’s the way that this will probably go best for us. The way that we’ve dealt with grief in our lives is with humor. That is the way that we framed writing this episode. We wanted it to be a chapter from our lives, and how we experience this loss and how we recover and move on.
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