World
Out in the World: LGBTQ news from Europe and Asia
Thai lawmakers approve marriage equality bill
PORTUGAL
The Portuguese Parliament passed the final draft of a bill this past week, which was first introduced last May by the Bloco de Esquerda, the populist democratic socialist political party, that outlaws “any practice aimed at the forced conversion of sexual orientation, identity or gender expression.”
Joined in a coalition with the Livre and PAN parties, the new law incorporates into the country’s penal code that “whoever subjects another person to this type of treatment, including the performance or promotion of medical-surgical procedures, practices with pharmacological, psychotherapeutic or other psychological or behavioral resources, will be punished with a prison sentence of up to three years or a fine.”
During the parliamentary debate in the Constitutional Affairs, Rights, Freedoms and Guarantees, the College of Physicians Committee issued a statement in which it criticized this type of therapy for “not having proven its effectiveness nor respecting the ethical and deontological standards of medical practice.” The organization highlighted that “diversity in sexual orientation and gender identity represents normal expressions, which cannot be considered diseases.”
The law now heads to President Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa for his signature.
Passage of the law by Parliament brings Portugal into alignment with other European Union nations. Malta was the first European country to ban the practice followed by Germany, Greece, Albania, France and Belgium.
SPAIN
The Assembly of Madrid, the unicameral autonomous legislature which governs the region around Spain’s capital city, voted this past week to rollback protections for transgender people. The measure was passed by the conservative People’s Party.
The measure also contained a proviso that guidelines preventing harassment of LGBTQ students in schools is eliminated, all content aimed at showing the LGBTQ community and the training of teachers in this matter are removed from the study plans.
The bill amended a regional trans rights law and an LGBTQ rights law, both of which were passed in 2016. The decision makes Madrid the first Spanish region to roll back such legislation. The anti-trans bill stripped the previous law of its fundamental pillar: The concept of “gender self-determination” or “freely expressed gender identification.”
The PP’s new law replaced the terms “trans people” and “gender identity” with “transsexuals” and “transsexuality,” terms which activists say are demeaning.
The Standard, a British news outlet, reported the move by the PP party sparked outcry from the opposition in Madrid and LGBTQ activists.
Carla Antonelli, an assembly member for the left-wing Mas Madrid party who is trans, wore red gloves symbolizing bloodied hands during the raucous debate preceding the vote. She called the bill an “abomination” and compared it to the actions of Nazi SS doctor Josef Mengele, who “also spoke of science to exterminate Jews and LGTBQ people.”
“When you press that button to vote for this infamy … you will all have blood on your hands,” Antonelli said adding: “This is terrorism towards trans people. You won’t be able to wash your dirty conscience because we will remind you of it every day.”
The Standard also noted that in December 2022, Spain passed a nationwide bill allowing trans people aged 14 and over to change their legal gender without the need for psychological or other medical evaluation, though those aged 14-16 would still need parental or guardians’ agreement.
Fourteen other Spanish regions out of the country’s 17 have laws for the protection of trans rights, LGBTQ rights, or both, on the books.
GREECE
The spokesperson for Greece’s center-right government announced Dec. 21 that legislation legalizing same-sex marriage will be brought to the Hellenic Parliament before its current term expires in 2027.
Pavlos Marinakis noted this action would take place despite facing staunch opposition from the country’s influential Orthodox Church, which the church’s governing Holy Synod had submitted late on Dec. 20, expressing strong opposition to legalizing same-sex marriage.
The Greek City Times reported that the church’s stance drew significant attention from the Greek news media, sparking a lively debate within the country. Opinion polls indicate that Greeks are evenly divided on the issue of same-sex marriage but generally oppose granting full parental rights to gay couples.
“The position of the Church of Greece remains that children have an innate need and therefore a right to grow up with a male father and a female mother. No amount of social modernization and no amount of political correctness can bypass (this),” the church document said.
“Children are not companion pets for those who wish to feel like a guardian, and are not ‘accessories’ to formalize or make same-sex cohabitation socially acceptable,” it added.
The Associated Press noted that Greece’s left-wing opposition leader, Stefanos Kasselakis, married his male partner in New York in October, several weeks after winning a party leadership election.
Greece legalized same-sex civil partnerships in 2015.
HUNGARY
In a press conference on Dec. 21, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán accused the European Commission of blackmailing his country over its anti-LGBTQ laws and other rule-of-law concerns.
“In our view, Hungary fulfils all the qualities of the rule of law, and when the European Commission has specific needs, we implement everything from them, and we are also cooperative,” Orbán told reporters. “You cannot blame me for doing everything I can to promote Hungary’s interests in such a blackmailed situation.”
Orbán has been embroiled in a long-standing dispute with the governing body of the EU, the European Commission, which has frozen billions of funds intended for Hungary over concerns about human rights and the rule of law in the country.
The government of the conservative ruling party of the prime minister has been feuding with the EU since passage of Hungary’s anti-LGBTQ education law in June 2021.
Orbán, who has publicly proclaimed that he is a “defender of traditional family Catholic values,” has been criticised by international human rights groups as discriminating against LGBTQ+ people with this law which European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen called a “disgrace.”
The European Commission, the ruling body of the EU, referred Hungary to the EU Court of Justice over the anti-LGBT law in mid-2022. The commission has said it considers that the law violates the EU’s internal market rules, the fundamental rights of individuals and EU values.
UNITED KINGDOM
A Manchester Crown jury found a pair of teenagers guilty in the murder of Brianna Ghey, a 16 year old trans girl and TikTok creator who was brutally stabbed to death in a park in Culcheth, Warrington, in February 2023.
The jury unanimously ruled the teens, known only as Girl X and Boy Y, guilty after deliberating for over four hours. The judge said she would have to impose a life sentence, with the official sentencing to take place next year.
Ghey, who lived in Birchwood, Cheshire, and was a junior at Birchwood Community High School had been bullied for her trans identity according to comments left on social media posts by friends and fellow students.
Her friends alleged she had been bullied and gang beaten at Birchwood Community High School for several years over the “simple reason of being trans.”
The gruesome details came out during the trial in Manchester, where the jury heard testimony that the pair, a male and a female, both 16 had a “thirst for killing” and were fascinated by torture.
PinkNewsUK reported a “murder plan” was later discovered in the female’s bedroom, and investigators discovered that they had put together a “kill list” made up of five children before they settled on making Ghey their first target. The jury also heard that male had referred to Ghey as “it” rather than “she,” which he said was a “joke” between himself and his female accomplice.
The Judge, Amanda Louise Yip, noted that she would have to impose a life sentence for both defendants. She explained that she will now have to decide what the “minimum amount of time you will be required to serve before you might be considered for release” should be.
Yip, after the jury’s verdict was delivered, announced there was a public interest in lifting restrictions on reporting the teenagers’ names, which because of their ages had not been disclosed. However she said the welfare of the defendants could be put at risk if supports were not put in place, BBC News reported.
The judge acknowledged that naming Ghey’s murderers would “cause distress to their families,” and she noted that they had already faced threats and harassment due to their children’s actions.
“I believe the appropriate balance can be achieved by directing that the order may be lifted but placing a [delay] upon it until the date of sentencing,” she said.
The Tory government’s Department for Education released a set of much-feared school policies and guidance concerning transgender students on Dec. 18. LGBTQ advocacy groups responded, describing the government’s draft guidance for trans schoolchildren proposals as “chilling” and “actively dangerous.”
PinkNewsUK reported the long-delayed guidance on how to support trans and non-binary pupils at school lays out steps to approach a range of issues, from social transition, to changing names and pronouns, to access to single-sex spaces.
The non-statutory guidance explicitly states that primary school-aged children “should not have different pronouns to their sex-based pronouns used about them,” and that if a child wishes to socially transition, parents should be engaged.
The plan further outlined policies that would forcibly out trans youth to their parents, ban pronouns for all primary school trans youth, prevent trans youth from using restrooms that align with their gender identity and could even lead to forced haircuts and clothing choices.
Journalist Erin Reed noted the policies even allow schools to enforce uniform policies based on a student’s assigned sex at birth, explicitly stating that trans students should follow the “hairstyle rules” of their assigned sex at birth. This would lead to trans girls being forced, for instance, to cut their hair short. You can see the policies here:
Social transition bans are, of course, seen and being promoted in other countries as well. New Zealand’s “Resist Gender Education” calls for the government to ban all social transition in schools, “even with parental consent.” In a statement to PinkNewsUK, Mermaids, a group that advocates for trans youth, added that the government’s guidance is “out-of-touch” and “absurd”.
“It is difficult to understand how aspects of this draft guidance, including automatically excluding trans pupils from facilities, sport bans or allowing students to be misgendered are compatible with existing equalities law,” the charity said.
“The overwhelming majority of teachers and parents believe trans pupils should be safe at school and will disregard these discriminatory guidelines, which will be non-compulsory.”
NEW ZEALAND
A new government policy will yank millions of dollars of public funding from New Zealand sports organizations as the government of newly elected Prime Minister Christopher Luxon sets out its agenda to “ensure publicly funded sporting bodies support fair competition that is not compromised by rules relating to gender.”
Andy Foster, a spokesperson for the populist and nationalist political New Zealand First party says it is “about fairness and safety in sport for women,” the NZ Herald reported.
Trans athlete and two-time national champion mountain biker Kate Weatherly told the Herald she fears it will lead to athletes being forced into men’s competitions or sidelined completely. Given the minimal number of trans women competing in amateur sports, Weatherly fears it could lead to their exclusion from the grassroots arena, she added.
Sport and Recreation Minister Chris Bishop was uncomfortable discussing the coalition agreement. “New Zealand First are very keen to make sure we have an inclusive environment and atmosphere for everybody — and that rules relating to gender don’t get in the way of that,” Bishop told the Herald.
“It is a tricky one, a thorny issue. There’s strong views on both sides of the debate. I’ll work through that with the relevant sporting bodies. Ultimately it’s got to go over to sporting bodies to make sure that we have fair competition.”
THAILAND
On Dec. 21, the Thai House of Representatives passed four draft bills regarding legalizing same-sex marriages in this Southeast Asia nation which has one of the more open cultures in that part of the world in acceptance of LGBTQ people.
Amnesty International Thailand Researcher Chanatip Tatiyakaroonwong noted in a statement:
“By potentially becoming the third place in Asia to legalize same-sex marriage, Thailand has the opportunity to set a bold example for LGBTI people’s rights in this region. These bills and the debates in Parliament over them represent a moment of hope for LGBTI people’s rights in Asia, even though there is still much to be done for their full protection.
The final version of this draft legislation must not water down calls for the full spectrum of the right to family life, including access to adoption and inheritance for LGBTI couples, as well as the legal recognition of same-sex couples as ‘spouses’ on an equal footing with different-sex couples.
As LGBTI activists have systematically demonstrated, efforts to broaden rights for LGBTI people don’t go nearly far enough to ensure equal rights guaranteed under international law. These bills set Thailand on a new path that could right those wrongs.
If legislation passes on first reading, Thailand’s Parliament should build on the momentum and prioritize the immediate adoption of this law, taking note of the celebratory reaction as a sign that the country is hungry for equality. Lawmakers in Parliament should continue to demonstrate to Thailand’s LGBTI community that they are listening and valuing their voices, wishes and perspectives.
Guaranteeing full marriage equality in law not only sends a message to the rest of the region but to the rest of the world, at a time when countries all over the globe are changing outdated laws and building more inclusive societies.”
Reuters reported that Deputy Prime Minister Somsak Thepsuthin told Parliament, referring to the government’s draft bill.
“In principle, this draft law is for the amendment of some provisions in the civic codes to open the way for lovers, regardless of their gender, to engage and get married. This will provide rights, responsibilities and family status as equal to the marriage between a man and a woman presently in all aspects,” he said.
Somsak said a government survey conducted between Oct. 31-Nov. 14 showed 96.6 percent public support for the draft bill.
Additional reporting from Esquerda News Lisbon, The Standard UK, Greek City Times, The Associated Press, Agence France-Presse, 24.HU News, PinkNewsUK, The BBC, Erin Reed, The New Zealand Herald and Reuters.
Egypt
Iran, Egypt object to playing in Seattle World Cup ‘Pride Match’
Game to take place on June 26
Iran and Egypt have objected to playing in a “Pride Match” that will take place in Seattle during the 2026 World Cup.
The Egyptian Football Association on Tuesday said it told FIFA Secretary General Mattias Grafström in a letter that “it categorically rejects holding any activities related to supporting (homosexuality) during the match between the Egyptian national team and Iran, scheduled to be held in Seattle, USA, on June 26, 2026, in the third round of the group stage of the 2026 World Cup.” Football Federation Islamic Republic of Iran President Mehdi Taj told ISNA, a semi-official Iranian news agency that both his country and Egypt “protested this issue.”
The 2026 World Cup will take place in the U.S., Canada, and Mexico. The draw took place at the Kennedy Center on Dec. 5.
Iran is among the handful of countries in which consensual same-sex sexual relations remain punishable by death.
The State Department’s 2023 human rights report notes that while Egyptian law “did not explicitly criminalize consensual same-sex sexual activity, authorities regularly arrested and prosecuted LGBTQI+ persons on charges including ‘debauchery,’ prostitution, and ‘violating family values.’” Egyptian authorities “also reportedly prosecuted LGBTQI+ individuals for ‘misuse of social media.’”
“This resulted in de facto criminalization of same-sex conduct and identity,” notes the report.
The 2024 human rights report the State Department released earlier this year did not include LGBTQ-specific references.
Soccer has ‘unique power to unite people across borders, cultures, and beliefs’
The June 26 match between Iran and Egypt coincides with Seattle Pride. The Washington Post reported the Seattle FIFA World Cup 2026 Local Organizing Committee decided to hold the “Pride Match” before last week’s draw.
“As the Local Organizing Committee, SeattleFWC26’s role is to prepare our city to host the matches and manage the city experience outside of Seattle Stadium,” said SeattleFWC26 Vice President of Communications Hana Tadesse in a statement the committee sent to the Washington Blade on Wednesday. “SeattleFWC26 is moving forward as planned with our community programming outside the stadium during Pride weekend and throughout the tournament, partnering with LGBTQ+ leaders, artists, and business owners to elevate existing Pride celebrations across Washington.”
“Football has a unique power to unite people across borders, cultures, and beliefs,” added Tadeese. “The Pacific Northwest is home to one of the nation’s largest Iranian-American communities, a thriving Egyptian diaspora, and rich communities representing all nations we’re hosting in Seattle. We’re committed to ensuring all residents and visitors experience the warmth, respect, and dignity that defines our region.”
The 2034 World Cup will take place in Saudi Arabia.
Consensual same-sex sexual relations remain punishable by death in the country. The 2022 World Cup took place in neighboring Qatar, despite concerns over the country’s anti-LGBTQ rights record.
Spain
Victory Institute honors transgender Spanish senator in D.C.
Carla Antonelli describes Trump policies as ‘absolutely terrifying’
The LGBTQ+ Victory Institute on Dec. 5 inducted Spanish Sen. Carla Antonelli into its LGBTQ+ Political Hall of Fame.
Antonelli in 2011 became the first openly transgender woman elected to a regional legislative office in Spain when she won a seat in the Madrid Assembly.
She left Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez’s leftist Spanish Socialist Workers’ Party in 2022. Antonelli in 2023 became the first openly trans woman in the Spanish Senate when Más Madrid, a progressive regional party, named her Pablo Gómez Perpinyà’s successor in the chamber.
The Hall of Fame induction took place during the Victory Institute’s annual International LGBTQ+ Leaders Conference at the JW Marriott Hotel in downtown D.C. The Washington Blade spoke with Antonelli on Dec. 6.
“We are living in rather turbulent times, hence the importance and necessity of gatherings like this one … to unite in these times, come together, and develop common strategies and policies.”
Antonelli, 66, grew up in Güímar, a municipality on the island of Tenerife in Spain’s Canary Islands.
She said transphobia forced her to leave her hometown in 1977, and she turned to sex work to support herself. Antonelli’s political activism began that year when she joined the campaign against a 1970 law that criminalized consensual same-sex sexual acts and LGBTQ people.
General Francisco Franco, whose regime governed the country from 1936-1975, approved the Law on Social Danger and Rehabilitation. Spain in 1995 removed the statute’s remaining provisions from its penal code.
Antonelli in the 1980s became a well-known actress. She is also a former spokesperson for Federación Estatal de Lesbianas, Gays, Transexuales y Bisexuales, a Spanish LGBTQ advocacy group known by the acronym FELGTB.
‘We will not go back to the margins’
Antonelli in February gave an impassioned speech in support of trans rights on the Senate floor.
She specifically singled out members of Vox, a far-right political party, over their efforts to repeal a landmark 2023 law that allows people who are at least 16 to legally change their gender without medical intervention. Antonelli’s speech — and her proclamation that “we will not go back to the margins” — quickly went viral.
Antonelli told the Blade she received messages of support from people in Algeria, Australia, Turkey, Mauritius, and elsewhere around the world. She added her speech was “the conclusion of everything I can feel at any given moment, also the pride of having lived through all these historical processes.”
“For whatever reason, I was born in ’59, and I lived through the dictatorship in my country,” said Antonelli. “I lived through the dictator’s death and I lived through what Spain was like exactly 50 years ago. It began to walk in freedom, and so freedom must be defended.”
Antonelli feared US would not allow her into the country
The Victory Institute conference took place less than a year after the Trump-Vance administration took office.
Antonelli in June traveled to D.C. and participated in WorldPride 2025. She admitted the White House’s anti-trans policies left her wondering whether the U.S. would allow her into the country as a trans woman.
The White House only recognizes two genders: male and female.
President Donald Trump after he took office signed an executive order that bans the State Department from issuing passports with “X” gender markers. U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services in August announced it will ensure “male aliens seeking immigration benefits aren’t coming to the U.S. to participate in women’s sports.”
Spain is among the countries that have issued advisories for trans and nonbinary people who are planning to visit the U.S.
“This speaks volumes about the policies of intimidation and targeting they’re implementing, policies that have made trans people scapegoats for all of humanity’s ills,” Antonelli told the Blade.
“In the United States, now with Trump, it’s absolutely terrifying because we’re talking about not just taking away a right, they’re going against our lives, against our very existence,” she added.
Antonelli in June met U.S. Rep. Sarah McBride (D-Del.), the first openly trans woman elected to Congress. Antonelli told the Blade she “watched with sorrow” how U.S. Rep. Nancy Mace (R-S.C.) and other Republicans treated the Delaware Democrat after her historic 2024 election.
“The first thing some vengeful scoundrels, thirsty for evil, do is prohibit her from entering the women’s restrooms,” said Antonelli.
“It’s nothing more than a desire to humiliate, to degrade,” she added. “Behind many of these policies lies a desire to do harm. In other words, these are bad people, evil people whose principles aren’t an ideology. They revel in it. They enjoy thinking about how they are making other human beings suffer.”
Antonelli also stressed “visibility” is “freedom.”
“The more they try to erase us, the more we have to be visible,” she said. “They know perfectly well that visibility inevitably leads to normality, to normalization, which is nothing more than what is repeated daily, routinely. What’s normal is what you see every day, so they’re trying to prevent us from being visible in every way possible, because what they don’t want is for society to accept, to live with this truth.”
Antonelli also offered advice for trans people who want to run for office.
“Always be upfront,” she said. “Don’t hold back, but above all, don’t forget where you come from. Because you might be lucky enough to rise and become a representative of the people, but don’t forget your origins.”
Antonelli noted she is the Más Madrid spokesperson for health, equality, culture, and other issues, but added she “will never, never, never abandon my trans sisters and the LGBTQ+ community.”
“I never severed times with my roots,” Antonelli told the Blade. “My roots are a conservative family, a town I had to flee and to which I didn’t return until 32 years later. My future, my past, is a street corner. My past is being able to make that journey in a democracy and go from that street corner to a seat in the Madrid Assembly and then from there to a seat in the Senate. And that is precisely the greatness of democracy.”
She ended the interview by a quote she gave to El País, a Spanish newspaper.
“Those who used to call us faggots have to now call us ‘your honors,’” said Antonelli.
What does longing for your child look like? What happens when they resurface in front of you, when that rift was once an immeasurable open sea — a searing pain that silently hollowed you out for decades? For the child wrenched away by circumstance and thrown into the purgatory of always feeling in-between: in between home, in between being a whole person, in between who you could have been and who you are now — what does it mean to become and belong?
In filmmaker Jota Mun’s documentary “Between Goodbyes”, the fragmented yearning for home, family and identity are woven together into a tremendous and at times dream-like contemplation of the self, focused on various family members set adrift by a deceitful international adoption machine.
The story is focused on Mieke Murkes, a queer Korean adoptee who grew up in the rural village of Vaassen in the Netherlands. Shortly after her birth in 1982, she was raised by Willy, a devout evangelical Christian woman. But the story does not begin with Mieke in Vaassen. It begins with Okgyun, her original mother, walking through an ephemeral meadow as she makes her way to a shoreline. This is our first point of loss.
It is important to understand how the stories of Okgyun and Mieke exist. In “Between Goodbyes”, we see a frustrating glimpse into the cultural and political forces that created this separation. Since 1955, 200,000 children have been adopted from South Korea, and just three years ago, several of these adoptees found that their documents had been falsified. Murkes would sift through her own papers in “Between Goodbyes”, noting their dull and rote descriptions of her physical appearance and health. “The paperwork is as if you’re buying a new car,” Murkes says.
Written nearby: “Both parents are unknown,” a falsehood that leaves the family breathless. It is a gut punch.
This March, a South Korean governmental agency admitted that it had violated the rights of adoptees, but an investigation that began in 2022 at the behest of over 350 Korean adoptees has been halted. Whether or not retribution can ever be paid is up in the air, but the reeling grief and complicated self-reckoning many of these adoptees and their families face are rendered and expressed with deep tenderness in Mun’s documentary. “I did not know how to fit the Korean part of me in there,” Murkes said.
When Okgyun was pregnant with Mieke, she was also raising three other daughters: Mijin, Mikyung and Taekyung. The population was booming, and mothers like herself were being shamed for continuing to have children. Considering abortion, Okgyun recounts a midwife who convinced her not to go through with it — that if the child were a boy, she should keep him. If it turned out to be a girl, she could give her away to live “a good life” in the U.S. “Men are always positioned above women,” Okgyun said. “I always hated that.”
After Mieke was born, Okgyun’s mother-in-law told her to give her away. “She was gone before I saw her face,” Okgyun said. “I let her go.” Her guilt tightens her throat, trembles in her voice. “I dreamed of Mieke a lot. I can’t tell you how many times,” Okgyun said. “Dreaming and forgetting, dreaming, and forgetting. The thought that kept me going is that one day I can find Mieke.”
What ensued was a several years-long search. Kwangho, Mieke’s original father, pleaded with an adoption agency for any leads about Mieke. They denied him several times and his desperation only grew. “I had to find her to be at peace before I die,” he said.
Meanwhile, Mieke’s own grief and confusion were compounding. When she was beginning to discover her queerness, she was deeply ingrained in local religious spaces. What made her feel free, the church treated as an aberration — as behavior that resulted from loss.
When she would eventually meet her original family, they, too, had trouble processing her queer identity and masculine presentation. To them, queerness was “acquired” from being raised in a foreign land. With time, they grew to embrace Mieke and her partner, Marit, even as misunderstandings arose. Of this, Mieke’s conflictedness is explored. Gay rights are more advanced and accepted in the Netherlands than in South Korea, but this does not mean contending with her queerness would have been easy with her adoptive mother, Willy. “It probably would have disappointed her a lot,” Mieke tearfully revealed.
Mieke’s stepping in between knowing and unknowing is reminiscent of Okgyun’s dreaming and forgetting — their grief and confusion move within them, replicating themselves over and over again. “Between Goodbyes” dives deeply into this in order to offer a portrait of healing: of its complications and the necessity of community support to achieve this.
Mun discusses the film with the Los Angeles Blade, diving into how reunification between adoptees and original family members is, in many ways, made nearly impossible by factors like language and cultural barriers enforced and held tightly in place by the international adoption system. This film illustrates a break in this narrative and the mighty efforts behind it all.
A broadcast version of “Between Goodbyes” is now available to stream on PBS. See below for more information.
Can you tell me about the inception of making “Between Goodbyes”? Have you always wanted to tell a story about international Korean adoption from a queer perspective?
As a queer Korean adoptee myself, [there are] so many intersections that I haven’t quite seen on screen before. So I was always really excited about making something about my community. And then I’d say, in 2017, is around when I started getting closer to zeroing in on the idea. I think part of it was through befriending Mieke and hearing her parents’ story. Hearing about their efforts really blew my mind.
So much of the standard narrative is that adoptees initiate the search. So even before meeting [Okgyun and Kwangho], it just felt like it spoke so loudly of not only their character, but a piece of the puzzle that I had never considered — that they could be longing for us. And I think as an adoptee, you always wonder what [your original parents] would think. So it’s very noticeable that we almost don’t ever hear from them directly. Even in narrative stories of adoption, they’re usually deleted, or they’re written in a really flat way that feels like they’re serving the plot. I’ve never seen a depiction of birth mothers in particular who are questioning their own circumstances or feel angry about it.
There’s a lot of nuance given to all of the different people that we see in the story. The pain is layered and deep, and we don’t just view it from one perspective. What was it like having to portray this hurt, when many adoption stories typically focus solely on the adoptee’s emotional and personal journey?
It’s so unique through each lens, even though it’s the same pain. Like her sisters — of course, it’s going to affect them. Even if she never said anything, they must have felt it. It just ripples out to everyone and keeps expanding.
Originally, it was focused on Mieke, because that’s who I had the most access to, and she’s the closest to me in terms of general identity markers. So in my mind, I felt more confident that I could tell her story in a nuanced way. But what about Okgyun? I was hitting a similar barrier of communication that Mieke had hit. That’s part of why our main producer, Zoe Sua Cho, was so essential in conveying more about Okygun and the original family’s side of the story.
When I was in the early stages of developing the film, there was a quote that I felt was really inspirational: “In our hurting, we did not realize that we were stolen from each other” (by SN Désirée Cha from Outsiders Within Writing on Transracial Adoption.) The same quote came back to me in the edit and helped us find a narrative structure that went beyond just one person’s perspective.
What if the main character is the collective trauma, a singular event that causes the family to splinter and suffer across decades? I wanted to explore how tempting it is in these moments of righteous anger at systemic problems to end up fighting with each other. I feel like they both had to mourn something that was so much bigger than any one family. Mieke’s adoption affected so many people that I almost wanted that to be the main character. How do we not get lost in that pain and still try to come back together? It’s too much to carry alone.
So the main character is not necessarily one person, but the issue that you’re trying to tackle throughout the story. It also makes me think about how the documentary itself, or the making of it, also participates in this community healing that I feel like was the focus of “Between Goodbyes”.
I hope it’s an important layer. Suffice to say I think I always deflect to name a singular main character. I wanted to show everyone’s point of view while of course highlighting especially Okgyun and Mieke.
What else can you share about your approach to filmmaking?
You know, I was on this wonderful panel earlier this year, hosted by A-DOC, and I kind of surprised myself in preparing for it. I realized, actually, I have a lot of strong beliefs on filmmaking ethics that I hope come through in the film. For example, I reject the genius artist myth. The fantasy that if an artist is talented enough, they get permission to treat everyone around them terribly. That exploitation and squeezing things out of people is the best way to make great art.
Instead, I want to believe that the sensitivity, the care, and emotional work I poured in is going to come shining through in the film. And I do think that’s part of why we witnessed so many intensely vulnerable moments that I couldn’t have predicted.
This emotional connection to the film is also, visually, represented in artistic and inventive ways. There are sequences interspersed throughout that feel dream-like and cinematic. Creatively, what was it like to structure and craft how you wanted those scenes to be, the weight that they carried, and why you wanted to represent them in that way?
Aw, thanks for saying so! I was clear from the beginning that I wanted certain moments in the film to look as cinematic and epically life-changing as they feel in real life. Because visually, sometimes these moments of heartbreak can look rather dull. The deep heartbreak of a farewell at the airport. What does it look like? It looks like two people hugging in a very normal-looking terminal. But that’s not what it feels like. It feels larger than life. So to me, every single one of the art [scenes] has a very literal symbolism in my mind.
I really enjoy the complexity given to the family, both through the artistic symbolism and through the different angles we get to view them in. When it comes to Mieke’s queer identity, there are varying levels of acceptance and also tension that co-exist. One of her sisters, Mikyung, skirts around terms and labels, instead saying Mieke is “like that,” and “I don’t know anyone like that.” There was this feeling that queerness is learned or acquired elsewhere — that Mieke “wouldn’t have turned out like that” if she had grown up with her original family in Korea.
I can’t be sure what they were implying but you know, I definitely didn’t want to fall into a common trope of seeing Western values as being so liberal and accepting and framing all other cultures as homophobic. I want to be clear that there is a queer community in Seoul. It’s not the same as Amsterdam, of course, but it does exist.
That’s part of why it was important for me to include Mieke mentioned what she thinks her Dutch mom would have thought — just to clarify that homophobes are everywhere. There are plenty of them here in the West as well. Mieke’s Dutch parents were Evangelist Christians. So it’s not like everyone in the West is free to be a lesbian, you know?
Another moment that struck me in the film was a moment where we, as the audience, get to see you clearly. In this scene, we see you and Mieke on a rooftop, and you’re consoling her as she’s trying to prepare for a difficult conversation with her original mother, Okgyun. Did you have to find a balance in terms of being the director of this film and being Mieke’s friend?
It was really important to me to show friendship and how much that can help you along the journey. You think that for her to emotionally process things, it would have to be with her mom. But that rooftop conversation felt so transformative in itself. And then what ended up being the kind of mirror scene to that was Okgyun talking to Ruth [a fellow original mother]. She needed a buddy, too. How many times in life are we like: the opposing party doesn’t need to get it, but if my friend just could — that would give me so much relief and patience to enter the actual conversation with the person I’m upset with.
Being so personally close to Mieke and her family meant that my film was about all people I loved and cared about. I think the documentary field comes from such a long history of an anthropological approach. It’s like, “I’ve helicoptered in, and I just met you, but I’m the expert artist.” I wish the ethos were the opposite; we need to care about everyone, from the participants to the crew. I don’t want the blood, sweat, and tears to come through on the screen. I hope that watching it makes people feel cloaked in tenderness and care.
I was so worried about everyone, probably too much. It’s such a weird thing to ask people to do, to be in a film, so I took that with a lot of responsibility. Be aware of the impact you’re having. I am having an effect on this family’s life. I almost wanted to be like: “Forget my art project.” This is about the rest of their lives as a family, and that’s more important. So it became a light on my path, trying to make decisions as best I could to have a positive impact on their relationship.
It almost made me question my ethics in a different direction. “Am I intervening too much?” And that’s a strange thing: I have to admit I exist. I’m not a fly on the wall. And I think that’s why the conversation on the roof was really the most vulnerable for me, because I was showing myself. I’ve actually been here the whole time, cheering them on or trying to diffuse tension. I set out to make a film about how hard it is to stay in reunion, but now I’ve realized I’ll be heartbroken if their reunion doesn’t last. So in many ways the film was really just a vehicle for my attempt at keeping us all connected across so many distances, and that’s my own emotional journey or connection to their story.
Mun plans to release the full-length film in 2026, along with deleted scenes and additional footage. Up-to-date information can be found on the film’s Instagram page.
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