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Holy spandex tights! It’s Batgirl!

Nearly 50 years later, Yvonne Craig reflects on ‘Batman,’ ‘Star Trek,’ Elvis and more

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Batgirl Craig, gay news, Washington Blade

Yvonne Craig was brought on to play Batgirl in the show’s third season. (Photo courtesy Craig)

Sometimes indelible pop culture impressions are made in a very short time. Yvonne Craig played Batgirl for just one season — the third and final — of the 1966-’68 TV series “Batman,” yet it’s the role she’s best known for nearly 50 years later.

And although the character appeared once on the big screen (in the oft-derided 1997 movie “Batman & Robin” in which she was portrayed by Alicia Silverstone), it is Craig, by far, who is most identified with the role.

Craig, 77, was a steadily working actress throughout the 1960s and beyond racking up appearances on “Perry Mason,” “The Barbara Stanwyck Show,” “My Three Sons,” “The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis” and — donning head-to-toe green body paint — as Marta, an Orion slave girl, in the classic “Star Trek” episode “Whom Gods Destroy.”  She also played opposite Elvis Presley in two feature films — “It Happened at the World’s Fair” (1963) and “Kissin’ Cousins” (1964). She was brought on “Batman” for the 1967-’68 season to play Commissioner Gordon’s librarian daughter Barbara whose alter ego Batgirl could be counted on to ward off villains with Batman (Adam West) and Robin (Burt Ward).

After years of legal wrangling, the series was finally released on DVD and Blu-ray last November. That was our initial peg for reaching out to Craig, but several delays including gall bladder surgery for the otherwise-healthy actress, pushed things back. We spoke to her by phone from her Los Angeles home two weeks ago. Quick to laugh and always ready to launch into a funny anecdote, Craig — who’s straight and happily married — was willing to indulge any inquiry. Her comments have been edited for length.

Batgirl, gay news, Washington Blade

Yvonne Craig says she enjoys meeting fans though she has rarely watched ‘Batman’ or ‘Star Trek’ since their original broadcasts. (Photo courtesy Craig)

WASHINGTON BLADE: Have you lived most of your adult life in Los Angeles?

YVONNE CRAIG: Yes. We moved up to Nevada, to south Lake Tahoe, about three years ago and we moved back last year and I’m so grateful to be back. You can only look at so many trees and eventually you say, “Where’s the classical music? Where’s the ballet company? Where’s the art museum?” Well, they’re not there.

BLADE: Let’s start with “Star Trek.” Sci-fi fans in general are often so ardent and you had such a major role on one of the most famous episodes of the iconic original series yet I’m sure for you at the time, it was just another job. What’s it like when you meet fans and they assume you’re going to be a walking encyclopedia of “Star Trek” ephemera?

CRAIG: Well, it’s been lovely for me and I loved the part. I did a convention where a young woman came up to my room to walk me down to where I was supposed to do a Q&A and I said to her, “There are so many weird people here,” and she said, “We’re all weird, we’re all misfits and the reason we like this is because we can all get together and understand one another and it’s the only place we’re really accepted by our peers.” And I thought, “Wow, that’s really insightful.” … I’ve always liked the fans and they’ve been charming to me. It’s just when they come up and say to me, “Do you remember the third rock on the left in the such and such,” and I say to them, “You know what? I’ve only seen two ‘Star Treks.’ One was mine and the other was ‘The Trouble with Tribbles,’” you know, the furry little things. (I’m told) “Whom Gods Destroy” is the second most popular episode after “Trouble with Tribbles.”

BLADE: Was it hard to relax between takes with the green body paint?

CRAIG: No, but getting it off at night was a disaster. I started with a shower at the studio, then I had to go home and take an oil bath, then take another shower. I think if I were doing it today, I would have just slept very carefully somewhere at the studio.

Yvonne Craig as Marta on 'Star Trek.' (Photo courtesy Craig)

Yvonne Craig as Marta on ‘Star Trek.’ (Photo courtesy Craig)

BLADE: Aren’t you glad you didn’t have to play her for several seasons?

CRAIG: Oh, wouldn’t that be horrible? We also had trouble making it stick during the day. We were at our wits’ end and it’s like the fourth day and finally … we found a makeup guy who could make it stick. He wasn’t really supposed to do it because at the time male makeup artists were not allowed to put body makeup on women, but I didn’t care. We brought him in and sure enough, he did the last two days and it never moved. It was great but we never told because he could have been fired. It’s so sexist I can’t believe it.

BLADE: Have you followed the various “Batman” film adaptations over the years? Do you have much interest in that?

CRAIG: Yes, I do. I liked Michael Keaton. I just loved him but in the second one, he got stuck with the Penguin and it had, like, six endings. You think it’s over and the Penguin is gone and he would come back spitting ink again. So I just knew immediately why when Michael Keaton said he’s not doing anymore, I knew immediately why. Who wants to be second banana to a penguin? … I thought George Clooney was just going to be terrific … and I thought Chris O’Donnell … would be a good match … then you get to the movie and it’s just awful. I don’t know what was going on, if George Clooney was just doing too many things at the same time so he didn’t think this out or something. Every time they mentioned that Alfred was ill, no Alfred isn’t just sick, Alfred is going to die, he just had this smirk. I’m like, “What’s funny about that? This is the man who brought you up, what is going on?” And then Chris O’Donnell just kept whining about a car and I thought, “God, I hate this movie.” I actually thought Alicia Silverstone would just be darling as Batgirl and I wrote her a note and said, “You’ll just knock ‘em dead.” … First of all, they made her whole relationship she was Alfred’s niece or something instead of Commissioner’s daughter, which was screwy, then they put them all in these Robocop outfits so they couldn’t even move, it was horrible. I didn’t like Val Kilmer but once they got Christian Bale, I loved it. I mean I really like him. He’s an excellent actor. So yeah, I keep up with them.

BLADE: They’ve gotten so dark. Why?

CRAIG: Well, when we first started there were people who remembered the (serial) films from the 1940s or whenever they did them and that was dark. So I think they are kind of of their time. We were busy being hippies and throwing flowers and love and peace and all of that and people were offended. They said, “This isn’t what Batman should be.” Those were the diehard ones. Now they’re all dead because it was a long time ago. The one with Michael Keaton, I thought was pretty dark and a couple of times you couldn’t see who was fighting whom, so you weren’t invested. If you can’t see who the villains are and who the good guys are, you lost interest. Then they got lighter for a while but our times have changed. I think we’re going back to dark because these are darker times. We have drive-by shootings and terrorists with no conscience. So I don’t know what the next thing might look like but I bet it will be scary.

BLADE: I guess “Batman v. Superman” (slated for 2016 release) is next.

CRAIG: Oh is it? Well, I may have to see that one.

BLADE: Should Batgirl be in it too? Do you feel any investment in these things as you hear of them?

CRAIG: No. I loved doing the role. I liked the way the writers wrote her. When people come up and say she was a role model, I always think, “Wow, I wish I had one of the writers next to me to hear this” because they’re really the ones who wrote this. Everybody forgets that the actor can only do anything with what they’re given. Writers never get the esteem they should have.

BLADE: Yes, but so many of the actors on the ‘60s show really became synonymous with the parts. When we think of the Riddler, we think of Frank Gorshin, we think of Cesar Romero (the Joker), we think of you as Batgirl and of Julie Newmar and Eartha Kitt as Catwoman. Why did that series have such impact?

CRAIG: Well it was a top-rated show and nothing had ever been seen before that looked quite like that. It was really a comic book that was live action so you saw “bam” and “pop” and all of those things you saw in a comic book. The colors were brilliant and they had this crazy thing where when the villain entered the camera was tilted. So it was innovative and unique for its time. There were a lot of things only the adults would have understood, double entendres, … yet it was safe to watch with kids because it wasn’t violent. You’re not seeing body parts and blood and guts and people shoot one another. … As far as being attached, I was only in the third season and I had a body of work before and I didn’t have a problem at all doing other things. I think Adam (West) was a whole other story because he has a very distinctive speech cadence. (Imitates West) “That’s just the way he talked — (pauses) — citizens.” When he’d go read for other parts, they just thought he was doing Batman so he had a hard time getting hired. … Now he’s doing voiceovers and it’s working for him again and I like that. He’s a nice man.

BLADE: Was the costume stretchy?

CRAIG: It was. I was used to being in leotards, so it was perfect for me. … It was easy to work in, easy to get in and out of and I did stunts, so it was easy to dance in, kick in and all those things. I had no problem with it. Lee Meriwether (Catwoman briefly in 1966) and I were on a panel together once and she said that was the most uncomfortable costume she has ever worn and it was kind of the same as mine, that same stretch fabric. I think it just has to do with whether you were used to wearing leotards or not and I was.

BLADE: Did you keep anything, the costume or any props or anything?

CRAIG: No, because it didn’t belong to me.

BLADE: That was your own hair as Barbara?

CRAIG: Yes. I told them I didn’t mind being a redhead as long as it was a wig, which it was and you saw it very prominently displayed in her secret room. A friend of mine at the time wanted to set me up with this guy. I was single then. She told him, “She plays Batgirl.” And he said, “Oh, well I like the little brunette better.” And I thought, “Oh he’s too dumb to go out with.”

BLADE: Was it a fairly chummy set?

CRAIG: Oh yes, the happiest set I’d been on since “Mod Squad.” … It was terrific. The cast liked one another, the crew liked one another and we all loved having all of these people on we’d never have worked with otherwise. I never would have worked with Milton Berle or Ethel Merman (otherwise). And they all loved it too because it was so different from anything else they’d ever done. It was a happy place to go to work every day.

BLADE: Burt’s (Robin) memoir was quite interesting.

CRAIG: Yes. I think he had a very vivid fantasy life.

BLADE: His (“Boy Wonder: My Life in Tights”) was quite different from yours (“From Ballet to the Batcave and Beyond”).

CRAIG: It was. He had asked me to write the foreword for his. I said sure, send it to me. He never did. He’d call and read me funny things and finally we were getting tight on time. I was leaving the country and he said he needed it so I sent him something that said, “I have not read this book.” (“Batman” writer) Stanley Ralph Ross said, “You can’t write a foreword to a book you haven’t read,” so I read the book and it was just relentlessly sexual. Even if it were true and it wasn’t, nobody wants to think of their little Robin as this voracious satyr. … I know there are different takes on things, but I can tell you truly in the third season, nothing happened on that set, nothing. And I can almost guarantee you nothing happened the first two seasons either. Now what they did when they were out on the road, I have no idea but as far as it happening on the set — he claimed he was behind scenery — but we were there working, they had somebody building on the next set we were going to use and we had stunt people, including me, off in a corner trying to figure out the fight scene. We shot those in three days. I mean it was just gangbusters, go! So I don’t know where he found the space or the time and I never saw any of it. … Plus we had children visiting the set almost every day.

BLADE: Would you have continued on another three or four seasons had it been renewed?

CRAIG: I would have. I loved doing it.

BLADE: How far into the season were you when you heard it wasn’t being renewed?

CRAIG: We had a wrap party for the third season and we all went home thinking we would be picked up and only when it was time to start shooting again did I hear we weren’t. So we never really had an over party. We just went home for Thanksgiving or Christmas or one of those and we didn’t know. And of course, we didn’t know 50 years later people were still going to be talking about it. We just said, “OK, on to the next job. What else do you have lined up for me?” because that’s the way the business runs.

BLADE: Alan Napier (Alfred) said once that Eartha Kitt (Catwoman on the third season) was “kind of marvelous” but complained a lot on the set. Agree?

CRAIG: I don’t know. In the scenes I had with her, she wasn’t complaining at all. She was a woman, oh boy, who was I would say rather conflicted and very insecure so who knows, she might have complained and he might have heard her or he might have had more down time sitting with her than I did because usually when I wasn’t shooting, I was off with the stunt people. But no. One time we did some kind of reunion-type thing and my husband was excited to meet her and she was just so nervous about doing this, I don’t know, it was like a talk show or something. And she said, “I’m sorry, I can’t meet him, I can’t meet anyone, I have to get myself together for this.” And I thought, “How strange — this is just a talk show.” But you know, her background was not wonderful. I can see it. You’re black, you’re in America, you purportedly said something not very nice to the first lady (Lady Bird Johnson). I didn’t see anything wrong with what she said, she was just asking a question. But you know, it probably adds up.

BLADE: I know you didn’t work with Julie Newmar (Catwoman, first two seasons) on the show but you’ve made appearances with her at various events since then. Have you gotten to know her at all?

CRAIG: Not really. At the conventions she’s done, she always arrives late but she has a great work ethic. Somebody said to her one day, “OK, Julie, so when you get up, what do you do?” And she said (slipping into Newmar’s purry voice) “Well — pauses — I put on a little makeup — pauses — and then I have some coffee …” And I figured, “OK, well, that’s why she’s always late,” but I’ll tell you what, she’s wonderful with the fans and she will stay until the last person sees her. There are a lot I could mention who don’t do that, so I think she and I have the best work ethic of the group.

BLADE: It was obviously such intentional camp. You seemed to play it very earnestly. Was it hard to find the right tone with the material?

CRAIG: No. I played it completely straight and that’s the clue. I think if the material is completely over the top, you play it straight and that makes it funny for the audience. If you play it with a wink, then it isn’t funny. This tends to happen a lot with child actors.

BLADE: Were you happy to see it finally released?

CRAIG: Yes. We don’t get any residuals or anything because, of course, there was no such thing as DVDs back then. I probably won’t watch it, but I’m glad to see it out. I live in the present and I don’t look back other than to say, “Well, that was a wonderful experience,” and if it weren’t a wonderful experience, as in the case of, say, Bill Shatner (Kirk on “Star Trek”), who I don’t think ever allowed anyone to have a wonderful experience with his acting, I just feel we only have a certain amount of time and I don’t want to spend it looking back.

BLADE: I saw a photo not long ago of you with Bill Bixby (“The Incredible Hulk”) and you were in a bathing suit. What was that from?

CRAIG: We were on “Courtship of Eddie’s Father” and “My Favorite Martian” together but I was never in a bathing suit. In those days, God, I sound like such a codger, they had Photoplay and these fan magazines, so they would set up these photo shoots. One time Adam took me out on his boat and we took pictures but it was just for photos, I had never been on his boat before or after.

BLADE: But you and Bill were friendly?

CRAIG: We dated! … We remained friends, but it just wasn’t a good match.

BLADE: They kept casting you as different girlfriends of Dobie Gillis. Did that seem odd to you at the time?

CRAIG: I don’t remember thinking that. I think I just thought, “Oh, I get to play somebody new.” Dwayne Hickman (Dobie) still cracks me up. My husband doesn’t understand it. He looks at me and says, “He’s not that funny,” and I just say, “To me, he is.” It’s like George Burns or Jack Benny. All I have to do is look at Dwayne and I laugh. I did four “Dobies,” I think. It’s really weird when I tell people who all I worked with. Once I even worked with (silent screen legend) Francis X. Bushman on (“Dobie” episode) “The Flying Millicans.” He played my father. He had this long gray hair and we were trapeze artists. To think that I actually worked with somebody who was in silent films!

BLADE: Lynda Carter said once that DC Comics reached out to her when they were going to change the Wonder Woman costume. Have they ever lent you any sort of Batgirl emeritus status or consulted you on anything over the years?

CRAIG: No, not at all.

BLADE: Both “Star Trek” and “Batman” were modest hits during their original runs but went crazy in syndication and ran forever. Any theories on why?

CRAIG: I honestly couldn’t tell you. I haven’t the foggiest idea. We only went three seasons and we were a mid-season replacement so it wasn’t even like they were long seasons. Some of those Westerns went on for like 22 years or something crazy.

BLADE: Like “Gunsmoke.”

CRAIG: Yes. And I hated doing Westerns.

BLADE: Did you do many?

CRAIG: Oh yeah, a whole slew of ‘em. “Wagon Train,” “Bronco.” As long as the horse hits his mark, they don’t care what you say. They figure, “OK, the horse is in place, she’s up there, we can always loop it.” It’s all predicated on a horse.

BLADE: Do you see any homoerotic subtext in Batman and Robin, either on the show or in any other incarnation?

CRAIG: I never really felt there was. I think a lot of people who were reading into that were not gay. It’s the homophobes who would say, “You know, an older man, I bet he’s diddling that kid.” People who do not understand homosexuality at all.

BLADE: Did you have a favorite villain?

CRAIG: Oh yes, Vincent Price (Egghead). Not because of the villainy, but any time you had down time with Vince Price, he was just wonderful. He was bright, he was curious, he had a great sense of humor, he knew a lot about art, he knew a lot about ballet. He was just very well informed and you knew he kept up.

BLADE: Did you know he was gay at the time?

CRAIG: Yes.

BLADE: How did you feel when you heard Elvis had died?

CRAIG: Oh dear. Well first, he was just the sweetest man. He was so polite and he took all this unsolicited advice from me, what he should do with his hair, crazy stuff like that. … When he died, the Dallas Morning News called me up, I was seeing my future husband at the time, and this reporter said (slipping into exaggerated Southern accent), “How did you feel when Elvis died, were you just devastated?” I said, “Well, no, because I think dead is really a thing just like alive except you have less choices to make.” And there was this dead silence. Finally she said, (returning to accent), “OK, well thank you very much.” He said to me, “Nobody understands what you mean when you say that,” and I just said, “Well, that’s her problem.” I was sorry he died so young. There’s a group up in San Francisco that are just huge Elvis fans. They have his leading ladies up to talk and I’ve been there and then they have an impersonator come out. When I was there, it was Elvis Herselvis, this rather fat, gay woman. She does a wonderful job.

BLADE: Have you kept much career memorabilia?

CRAIG: No, nothing. When I did the book, all the photos were from fans who’d sent them to me at one time or another. When Capital Cities bought ABC, they sent me a whole stack of pictures they were just going to otherwise throw away and said, “Do you want them?” But that was it. I don’t keep stuff. I probably don’t have much of a sentimental bone in my body.

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The mastery of love

The world knows Eric Anderson as Billy Porter’s partner, but in Rehoboth Beach, he has a story entirely his own

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Eric Anderson and Billy Porter met at a Christmas party and ended up talking until the sun came up. (Photo courtesy of Eric Anderson)

The world knows Eric Anderson as Billy Porter’s partner. In Rehoboth Beach, Del., he has a life — and a story — entirely his own.

My first time with Eric Anderson was hot — very hot. Before he arrived, I sat waiting, overthinking everything. When he finally appeared in a loose-fitting T-shirt and purple shorts, I understood why he attracts attention. Eric is the kind of man who changes the energy of a room simply by entering it.

After a quick hello, we got right to it. Techno pulsed through the room as Eric told me how to move, where to place my hands, when to breathe. My heart pounded. My muscles ached. I bent, twisted, and stretched while sweat ran down my back and burned my eyes. I didn’t bother wiping it away.

To be clear, Eric and I were not alone. Five other people were with us — and the yoga studio at SoulFire Collective in Rehoboth Beach was heated to 87 degrees.

“If you are always racing toward the next moment, what happens to the one you’re in?” Eric asked, opening his power yoga class and inviting us to leave whatever had followed us through the door and surrender to the present. Surrender did not come easily. At 58, I’ve done enough yoga to know the difference between discomfort and imminent death. Halfway through Eric’s relentless flow, the distinction began to blur.

A playlist of techno and remixed pop — including “Live Like You Were Dying” — carried us from one demanding pose to the next. Eric moved among the mats with the energy of a nightclub DJ and the calm of someone who trusted our bodies to go further than our minds believed possible. Nearly an hour later, when the music softened and I collapsed onto my back in savasana, he laid a cool cloth across my forehead. I exhaled — relieved, and maybe a little disappointed, that my first time with Eric was over.

At the end of my mat, a handwritten note congratulated me on my first class and invited me back — a small benediction after the storm. Then Eric closed the class by repeating the question with which he’d opened. For a man whose relationship with actor and singer Billy Porter has drawn him unexpectedly into the public eye, it sounded less like a yoga mantra than a personal creed.

The next time I meet Eric, there is air conditioning and caffeine. We are at Starbucks, where I deliberately order the largest drinks available, as though volume alone might buy me more time. He chooses a matcha, and I order herbal tea. My heart is pounding again, faster than the soft rock drifting from the speakers above us. Although I’ve already spent more than an hour with Eric, I know almost nothing about the man I’m about to interview.

Neither, it seems, does anyone else.

Celebrity outlets offer a handful of biographical details: a Rehoboth Beach teacher and yoga instructor with a master’s degree from Columbia University. Gay publications have been less restrained. One introduced him as Billy Porter’s “total hot stud,” called him “a snacc,” and praised his ability to “rock a Speedo.” Queerty distilled Eric’s identity to five words: “Porter is dating a teacher.”

All of it tells me how the world sees him. None of it tells me who he is.

I know from our text exchanges that Eric is slammed for time. He is scheduled to travel to New York later that day and fly to WorldPride Amsterdam the following afternoon. Billy is among the headliners for the opening-night Unity Concert and is also slated to perform at the Wedding Party XXL alongside KI/KI, Bimini, and the Vengaboys. Eric still has to pack. This, I’m beginning to understand, is part of loving someone famous: there is almost always an itinerary, another city, and a specific time and place Billy needs to be. Even here, with two untouched drinks between us, the clock is ticking.

Eric Anderson (Photo courtesy of Eric Anderson)

As soon as we sit down, I open my laptop, ready to get to work. My mind is focused on the list of questions I’ve prepared, and I’ve already anticipated the shape of most of his responses. Then I look up and see Eric sitting perfectly still, smiling, and taking in the moment. He hasn’t even taken a sip of his matcha yet.

I quietly close my laptop and breathe.

Within minutes, the interview softens into a conversation.

Eric earned a bachelor’s degree in history from the University of Delaware and a master’s in public school leadership from Teachers College, Columbia University. He began his career teaching mathematics before moving into school administration, eventually serving as vice president of the Charter School of Wilmington and head of school at Sussex Academy. Today, he teaches mathematics and social studies in the Cape Henlopen School District. He also coaches soccer and leads yoga classes at SoulFire Collective in Rehoboth Beach.

His return to the classroom was deliberate. Eric knows some people assumed there must be a story behind his leaving administration—that he had done something wrong or that teaching represented a demotion.

“I want to make it clear that I went back to teaching by choice,” he says.

As a child, Eric played school. Teaching has always felt natural to him, less like an occupation than an expression of who he is. Administration was different.

“It felt like work,” he says. “It wasn’t where my passion was, and it didn’t bring me joy. Going back into the classroom was simply me choosing joy.”

The more Eric talks, the clearer it becomes that teaching is not merely a job but a vocation. His mother is white and his father is Black, and growing up biracial was not always easy. “I saw the best and the worst of both,” he tells me. Those experiences helped shape his desire to become a teacher — to be the kind of person who could make a meaningful difference in a young person’s life.

Just then, Eric glances over his shoulder and locks eyes with someone across the room. He waves and flashes what is quickly becoming his signature smile. My first thought is that someone has recognized him as Billy Porter’s partner.

I’m wrong. It’s one of his former students.

Inevitably, our conversation turns to love — and to Billy. I’ve made it clear that I’m here to write about Eric, not Billy Porter. But separating the two entirely would be as artificial as defining Eric only by their relationship. Billy is now an essential part of his story.

Eric met Billy at a Christmas party hosted by mutual friends who had been trying to introduce them all night. It wasn’t easy — the party was crowded, and the two men never quite crossed paths. Eric stayed for the afterparty, where a friend nudged him and nodded toward the room: Billy was looking his way. Romance never crossed his mind.

Eventually, they started talking. Eric has never had much patience for small talk, and he wasn’t interested in cataloging which celebrities Billy knew. He skipped it entirely and went straight for the deeper questions — what Billy believed, how he saw the world, what mattered to him. They ended up at the kitchen table, trading life philosophies until 5 a.m.

What struck Eric most wasn’t the conversation’s length. It was its depth. Billy wasn’t who he expected. Neither was the conversation. By the time the sun was coming up, Eric was less surprised that they’d talked all night than by how much, it turned out, they had in common.

They had dinner the following evening, and Billy invited Eric to spend the weekend with him in New York. There, Billy took him to see Nicole Scherzinger in “Sunset Boulevard.” Right before the show started, he casually introduced Eric to a friend named Katy. Back in their seats, Eric asked how Billy knew her.

“BITCH,” Billy replied, “that is Miss K-A-T-Y P-E-R-R-Y!”

For all the glamour surrounding their courtship, Eric describes the foundation of their relationship in decidedly spiritual terms. His favorite book is don Miguel Ruiz’s The Mastery of Love, which explores how fear, expectation, and the need for approval can distort relationships. Its philosophy closely resembles Eric’s own.

On the surface, Eric and Billy inhabit different worlds. Eric is a deeply spiritual teacher rooted in a small coastal Delaware town. Billy is a celebrated actor and performer whose larger-than-life persona commands stages around the world. But when I ask Eric how the relationship works, he doesn’t hesitate.

“I know that I can be my authentic self with him, and he can be his with me,” he says. “We love each other unconditionally.”

The words could sound rehearsed. Coming from Eric, they don’t.

The red carpets, famous faces, and international travel are not what matter most.

“It’s all about the people,” he explains. “I love Billy’s family and friends, and he loves mine.”

Authenticity surfaces repeatedly in our conversation — not as an abstract ideal, but as Eric’s determination to trust what feels right for him, even when other people may not understand it. I tell him about growing up in Pittsburgh and spending much of my life trying to fit the person I was into the person the world expected me to be. Eric listens intently, then pauses before responding.

“Fuck the system.”

It is blunt, funny, and entirely consistent with the man sitting across from me. Dating Billy may have dramatically increased the number of strangers who have opinions about Eric, but it hasn’t increased the number whose opinions matter to him. He is remarkably unconcerned with what people he doesn’t know think — or say — about him. The attention is new. His response to it is not.

For Eric, authenticity isn’t about asking the world for permission to be yourself. It’s about deciding that permission was never the world’s to give.

That instinct—to look inward rather than outward for permission — predates Billy.

Eric initially turned to yoga for a practical reason: he wanted to improve his physical performance on the soccer field. It didn’t take long for him to realize that something else was happening. Yoga was strengthening his body, but it was also grounding him.

Over time, the physical practice became inseparable from the mental one. The poses, the heat, even the strength required to hold his body in place became less important than learning how to quiet the noise around him, stay present, and listen to himself. The man who had pushed me through an hour of sweat and discomfort wasn’t simply teaching people how to move their bodies. He was asking them to practice something he had learned to do himself.

That sense of being grounded has become particularly important in a relationship that often requires two people to live very different lives. Eric is quick to point out that he and Billy have separate careers, separate ambitions, and goals entirely their own. Neither expects the other to abandon an individual life simply because they have chosen to build a relationship together.

When Billy left for London to star in “Cabaret,” distance became part of their routine. They FaceTimed every day, a practice they continue whenever they are apart.

“I tell Billy everything,” Eric says.

Being authentic with Billy doesn’t require the two men to become more alike. If anything, the opposite seems true. They are comfortable following their own career paths, living separate lives when circumstances require it, and giving each other the freedom to pursue what matters individually. Then they come back together — not because either has put his own life on hold, but because they have chosen to share those lives with each other.

When we finally look at the time, nearly 90 minutes have passed. Eric still needs to pack. New York is waiting, Amsterdam after that, and somewhere there is undoubtedly an itinerary telling Billy exactly where he needs to be and when.

But for a while, neither of us was racing toward the next moment.

We were fully inside the one we were in.

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What ‘Queer Eye for the Straight Guy’ can still teach us

Producer David Collins on lasting impact of hit series

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David Collins (Photo courtesy of Collins)

It’s hard to imagine where LGBTQ+ television would be without “Queer Eye for the Straight Guy,” the trailblazing reality series that premiered in 2003. 

Each episode of this Emmy-winning show saw a group of gays converge on a struggling man — the titular straight guy — and offer nonstop wit while organizing his endlessly messy life. This program about a group of homosexual helpers took the world by storm, furthering the love of gay television begun by shows like “Will and Grace” but bringing it into the growing medium of reality TV. Of course, it wasn’t perfect; “Queer Eye for the Straight Guy” often cast its experts less as multi-faceted queer folks and more as sources of early 2000s gay jokes. But despite these pitfalls, it’s undeniable that the original program explored the realities of being gay in a way audiences had never seen before. It was a monumental piece of LGBTQ+ representation, and its success is largely owed to the man who fought to get this show made: producer David Collins. 

Collins spoke with the Blade from his Los Angeles home, where he’s spent the past few years living with his husband and his two daughters. David spoke fondly of his many years in the industry, detailing how it feels to be such a huge part of LGBTQ+ history. He explained, however, that he didn’t initially set out to alter how queer people were seen on television. “I never went out to make gay television,” said the producer. “I went out to tell great stories.”

“I’m a hillbilly from Ohio, and I thought I was going to be an editor,” David laughed, looking back on his career. “I interned at the Cincinnati Film Office, and I showed up to work my very first day, and the film commissioner was like, ‘Get to the airport right now and pick [someone] up. Don’t talk to them.’ Well, I ended up picking up Jodie Foster.” Collins raved about this car ride that changed his life, with the pair becoming friends and Foster pushing him to become a producer who puts their own media out into the world. Eventually, he did just that, and after learning about the wild new genre that was reality TV, he pitched a series to Bravo: “Queer Eye for the Straight Guy.” 

“I was obsessed with Esquire magazine, and they had five categories: fashion, grooming, interior design, culture, food, and wine. So I gave them each a gay, and the Fab Five were born!” Collins said, describing how viewers quickly fell in love with the concept and earned the program four seasons and an Emmy for Outstanding Reality Program. He spoke about how proud he felt creating a show that centered real gay people, not characters in a story, remembering, “To stand in the middle of Times Square and look up and see this massive billboard with the original Queer Eye guys…it wasn’t even a dream come true, because it wasn’t a dream I had even fathomed.”

With his series, people were watching actual gay men and learning the realities of a queer culture that had always been portrayed as a danger to society. Collins tearfully recounted hearing about queer people using the show as a way to connect with their family, saying, “What I’m most proud of that’s come out of Queer Eye [are] the conversations that that series has allowed to have people around their kitchen tables with little boys in Ohio like me who were scared to death that they were going to burn in hell because their pastor was telling them that they were a sinner.”

Now, for all of its trailblazing, the program wasn’t wholly positive; the show’s focus on the central ‘straight guy’ meant it rarely delved into the lives of its Fab Five. Collins regretted that lack of depth but understood that earlier audiences weren’t accustomed to such a nuanced look into queerness — that would have to wait for the reboot. 

When “Queer Eye” came out in 2018, audiences were introduced to not only a new Fab Five, but a whole new format (that didn’t rely on a straight person). Now, the series would assist queer folks and allies alike, spotlighting these individuals as well as the queer experts helping them improve their lives. The show has been applauded for its amazing makeovers, but where it truly stands out is its representation, offering a look into individuals across the country and the struggles — along with the immense joys — of being queer in America today.

Fans were disappointed to hear that “Queer Eye” would be ending after its 10th season, but David stressed that they wouldn’t have to be sad for long. “What I will say to you is this: hang tight,” he teased. “There’s yet another version of ‘Queer Eye’ to come, and we’re working on that now.” In the meantime, Collins is continuing his work with new shows like the “House of Stassi,” a series centered on “Vanderpump Rules’”prolific waitress. He’s excited about these new projects, but emphasized that his heart will always belong to “Queer Eye for the Straight Guy” and all that it continues to do for viewers 19 years after its finale. 

“It’s not about your new outfit or your new couch or your new whatever. It’s about your humanity,” said Collins, speaking about the core lesson he hopes people take away from the Queer Eye franchise. “It’s about seeing yourself. It’s about dignity. It’s about how confidence breeds success.”

A valuable message that queer folks can benefit from even more now than they did in 2003. And, while it’s unclear just what lies ahead for this franchise, one thing is for sure: “Queer Eye for the Straight Guy” helped people everywhere understand the power that exists within our queerness. It’s a truth that has impacted countless pieces of LGBTQ+ television today, and it’s one that Collins promises to keep alive through whatever hit show he creates next. 

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Jason DePuy on coping with homophobia in ‘Big Brother’ house

First drag queen contestant on CBS show fought to stay positive

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Jason DePuy on Big Brother (Photo courtesy of CBS Broadcasting,Inc.)

One week after Jason DePuy (known as Salina EsTitties on “RuPaul’s Drag Race”) was bullied and eventually evicted from CBS’s “Big Brother” house, the queer drag performer is still emotionally processing his feelings.

During his 24 days in the reality TV competition, DePuy often had a rough time, with fellow cast member Kamuela “Kamu” Kirk making homophobic comments and feeling isolated.

In a conversation with Head of Household Rick Devens, Kirk left viewers upset when he said, “Bro, miss me with the drag stuff. Miss me. I’m still an MMA guy, and I have an image to uphold.”

Former “Big Brother” contestant Frankie Grande called his words  ‘homophobic’ and ‘gross.’ Another comment, where Kirk said he wanted to end DePuy’s career, also received strong backlash online.

Now that he is out of the house, DePuy has been shocked and deeply touched by the love from “Big Brother” fans and former contestants. We chatted with DePuy for this Blade exclusive.

“To know that my community was rallying for me outside the house was the most wonderful thing. Seeing how much people were just wanting to shower me with love was incredible. Even my friends, I went to say hi and give them a hug, and they’re like, ‘Uh, uh, come here.’ They had to hold me and let me know America was feeling for me in a way that I had no idea.”

He added: “To see that reality was just overwhelming, and I couldn’t ask for more.”

Known as a messy player in the house, DePuy often had to fight to stay positive and stand up for himself. 

“No one was coming to my rescue. In real life, it’s easy to block people, but in the house, I didn’t have that luxury, so I had to find it within myself to learn how to speak up for myself in a way that wasn’t nasty or biting. I didn’t attack anyone personally, which is what I was the most proud of.”

DePuy acknowledged he has had a history of putting his foot in his mouth when it came to certain “Drag Race”moments, being in the public eye, and making a fool of himself. “I’ve learned my lessons; to see how I handled myself in the ‘Big Brother’ house was amazing.” 

While DePuy has been sober for 14 and a half years and has a strong spiritual foundation, in the Big Brother house, he often felt like he couldn’t communicate what he was feeling. 

“As a queer person, a person of color, a drag queen, I have to be very careful about how I move. I don’t have the luxury or privilege to just act a certain way or say a certain thing. I have to be very careful; I’m representing me. But who I am is a Latino, a person of recovery, a drag queen, a queer person in the community. I know that there’s a lot of pressure that comes with that. I felt it was safer for me to sit there and just breathe than try to do anything crazy.”

He continued: “I couldn’t speak to the personal attack that was happening in the house, because in my mind I was like, ‘no, this is a game, and I have to play it, put that aside.’”

Not only can viewers watch the episodes, but they can also watch the live feeds of what’s happening. Seeing the fans’ social media posts from people who had watched the episodes and the live feeds also contributed to DePuy realizing that his feelings of discomfort were valid.

“To know that I wasn’t delusional in those moments, that others could see what was happening, has been a lot to take in. Fans and friends let me know the comments made went beyond the game…I’m like, ‘Oh, so my instincts were correct.”

One of the most poignant moments on the live feeds occurred when DePuy was crying, alone in his room, and said how he missed his gay community.

“I really missed my friends. I missed my queer community. We’re so colorful. We’re so loud. We’re so vibrant. We speak off the cuff, and we’re very truthful and honest with how we speak, and it’s fun. We have fun lingo.”

DePuy had to censor his expressions in the house. “Because I can say one thing, but it can mean something different to straight people than it does with my queer brothers and sisters. So, there was a sense of code-switching that I had to do. I had to even put aside some of my queerness in a way sometimes to fit in.”

DePuy was thrilled to be the very first drag queen to ever be cast on the show. 

“I’m honored to have been chosen. There’s a million drag queens out there, and to know that I was a contender to come in the house and not even be in drag was like a wow for me. I’m over here in Hollywood, running around these streets with a wig and heels just to make a dollar to survive, and I have to rely on drag to do that. And then to be offered this opportunity and be given the privilege to say, ‘hey, you don’t have to put on the wig for you to be valuable here,’ is just insane to me.”

Prior to his shows, DePuy has been hustling for 15 years, flipping burgers and doing drag at night.

“That has been my life these past since I was 17. So it’s been a long journey; the opportunity to do this out of drag is a very big blessing. I’m honored and grateful to be the representation of my community.”

If you missed Jason on “Big Brother: Unlocked,” the episode can be seen on CBS.com. He will be back on the show for the finale.

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