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New web series ‘These Thems’ explores the queer spectrum through comedy

Authentic casting was paramount to creator/writer of YouTube OML production

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These Thems, gay news, Washington Blade
The cast of ‘These Thems’ is from left Shaan Dasani, Nick Park, Vico Ortiz and Gretchen Wylder. (Photo courtesy of Chatter Republic)

An episodic romantic comedy about a newly out lesbian journeying with nonbinary and transgender friends through New York City’s vibrant queer scene streams Feb. 27 on YouTube’s OML channel.

These Thems” follows 30-year-old Gretchen and her nonbinary friend and LGBTQ educator Vero as they navigate the increasingly-complex-yet-still-inclusive world of colorful queer community. 

Similar to “Pose,” this series features a multitude of transgender, nonbinary and queer characters portrayed by actors who are the same. It’s run by crew members who identify across the queer spectrum.

Series writer, creator and star Gretchen Wylder, who identifies as a queer cisgender femme, and director Jett Garrison, who identifies as transmasculine, recently spoke with the Washington Blade about this show, which both called a “comedy with heart.”

“These Thems” was listed in GLAAD’s “Top Trans Creatives and Stories to Watch in 2019” and has received awards at film festivals in Chicago, Austin, North Carolina and Kansas. It was also screened at Toronto’s Inside Out festival, Atlanta’s Out on Film and Los Angeles’ Outfest.

The series is set to stream Thursdays on OML through mid-April. 

WASHINGTON BLADE: Gretchen, can you tell us a little about the show? How would you describe it?

GRETCHEN WYLDER: The show is a queer comedy series that follows four main characters in New York City. We follow a newly out lesbian who is trying to make up for lost time, and a nonbinary/wannabe queer educator who takes Gretchen under their wings. Their best friend is a trans man who is deciding whether or not to out himself at work, and he quickly falls for Gretchen’s best friend who is a cis gay man who is lovelorn and doesn’t really have any experience within the queer world. The audience follows Gretchen’s perspective through her lens of exploring the queer world for the first time.

BLADE: You also named the lead character Gretchen. Was there any special reason? 

WYLDER: There’s a lot of actor/writers whom I look up to who have named lead characters after themselves. Lucille Ball, Issa Rae. … And a lot of it is based off my own personal experience. Some of it is based on my own coming out experience, even though I came out 13 years ago. The first episode is inspired by a similar situation.

BLADE: Would you say you’re similar to your character?

WYLDER: Oh, Lord! We’re very similar, ha! I’m a Pisces and I’ve had my run of heartbreak, so we kind of see Gretchen going through the wringer a little bit. But near the end we see Gretchen reclaiming herself, her individuality and her sexuality.

BLADE: What inspired you to create a newly out lesbian navigating the queer world?

WYLDER: I like to think our show draws from and was inspired by “The L Word,” and it was so important to queer representation. But something that we deliver that “The L Word” doesn’t have is a more broad scope of what the queer community looks like. I feel like as enjoyable as it is, it for the most part it seems to focus its lens on cisgendered and conventionally attractive characters facing relationship troubles, and this show focuses more on the broadness of the New York queer community. One thing I never related to with “The L Word” was the predominantly white, feminine, lesbian circles. One thing that I wanted to reflect was queer intersectionality and to show that sometimes it is really difficult to navigate. We all don’t have the answers and we’re all learning and we’re all growing and the characters are just trying their best and experiencing life together — even if it looks different depending on the character.

BLADE: Was it a challenge writing for nonbinary cast members?

WYLDER: Many of my friendships and relationships are with people who identify as nonbinary or trans and I was very active in the queer community in New York City.When I was writing the show, I had four table readings in New York City. I come from a theater background and it comes immediately across from the audience when something is working or isn’t working. I tell you what, there have been so many rewrites of the script because so much of the language was clunky at first. I would get feedback and something wouldn’t work. It was a lot of trial and error.

BLADE: Jett, what drew you to this project?

JETT GARRISON: I read the script and fell in love with the characters, fell in love with the story — the humor. One of the things that drew me to the project was how beautifully Gretchen wrote all of these characters. Gretchen, the character, is having her coming out of sorts, but this is not a coming out story, per se. It is a coming out for folks who are already in the queer community. We have been over the past maybe five years learning a whole new vocabulary that didn’t exist for some of us in our 30s, 40s or 50s. We didn’t have words like nonbinary or trans, so Gretchen gets a new vocabulary and is excited and overwhelmed and she’s trying her best to figure it out. And I feel like everyone, whether they are a straight cis ally or part of the queer community, has had some kind of moment where they are trying to navigate and honoring somebody’s sexuality, identity or humaness in a way that is foreign to them.

BLADE: How did you become involved?

GARRISON: I’ve been a filmmaker for almost 20 years, and primarily as a queer, feminist, female-forward type of storyteller. Gretchen was reaching out to transmasculine, trans male directors because of a central storyline that she knew she wanted to have an extra set of eyes and an extra heart to pay attention to. And I really connected to our transmasculine character, Asher. I knew that I wanted to develop those stories because we haven’t been seen in these storylines or characters.

BLADE: Did being a transmasculine director help with developing the authenticity in those scenes?

GARRISON: When you are a director working with your actors, whether it is in theater or film, you have to build this trust. … We (two of the transmasculine actors) were able to work in my apartment and have a discussion about what each of their identities mean to them and where they come from. Shaan (Dasani) happened to be a good friend of mine and we talk a lot about different experiences and where safety comes into play about being out — whether it’s at work or in public — so we’re constantly in dialogue. So, when you’re on set, you just develop the shorthand. And when you’re asking for subtle changes in a delivery, or maybe a shading of a line, it also incorporates the writer and Gretchen knew she could trust me and our actors to collaborate and make sure it all worked together.

BLADE: As a transmasculine director, what challenges did you face in the industry prior to this project?

GARRISON: I directed quite a bit. I got my MFA at the University of Texas and one of my shorts was nominated for a student Academy Award. But I haven’t done much directing since I transitioned, which was just a few years ago. It’s been a challenge for me because I identified as a butch lesbian and was a member of many female directing initiatives. But once I transitioned, I kind of transitioned myself out of those communities. I transitioned at a time when our trans sisters were doing a good job of elevating their visibility in the media. For us trans masculine folks, that wasn’t the case for a multitude of reasons. Now, a lot of it is coming out and meeting each other and helping try to elevate one another. “These Thems” came along at a perfect time. Episodic directing has been a goal of mine for a while.

BLADE: Does the show include cisgender heterosexual cast and characters? Are there any funny moments that stand out?

GARRISON: We wanted this to be participatory to see how cis-het connect with us and are a part of this world that we all live in. Our gender reveal party episode is hilarious and we didn’t want our cis-het people to come off as dumb or unknowing but learning about this new world along with Gretchen and the rest of us.

BLADE: Gretchen, how did cisgender heterosexual audience members feel about the show? Did they get what you were trying to say?

WYLDER: Cis-het friends who watch the show enjoy it and so did older lesbians and cis-gay men who are not within the trans spectrum and don’t understand it. So, this is a way to watch and learn in a fun comedic way. The character of Gretchen represents anyone, regardless of how they identify, who is new to this new world and faces its challenges in a funny, relatable way. Humor is something that everyone can relate to.

The cast of ‘These Thems.’ (Photo courtesy Chatter Republic)
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‘Tiger’ burning bright: an interview with Mary Timony

Today’s female-driven music scene wouldn’t be the same without her

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Mary Timony is back with a new album. (Photo by Chris Grady)

It’s hard to imagine what the current female-driven music scene would be like without Mary Timony. From Sleater-Kinney to Haim, from Angel Olsen to Mitski, the influence of Mary Timony is in every note being played, every word being sung. On her new solo album, “Untame The Tiger” (Merge), with its sly nod to Joni Mitchell, Timony has brought her many years of musical experience to the fore, resulting in what is easily her most accessible release. Beginning with the incredible six-plus minute opener “No Thirds” and continuing through the first single, “Dominoes,” and gorgeous numbers including “The Guest,” “The Dream,” and “Not The Only One,” Timony is assured to keep listeners purring along. Timony made time for an interview shortly before the album was released.

BLADE: Mary, I’d like to begin by talking to you about your musical lives in D.C. and Boston. I went to college in Boston in the early 1980s and was constantly amazed by the bands of the era such as Mission of Burma, Human Sexual Response, and ‘Til Tuesday. I moved to D.C. in the mid-1980s to go to grad school, and at the time, the music scene there was dominated by go-go music, and a smaller indie music featuring BETTY and the late Tommy Keene, among others. What do you remember about the music in D.C. as someone who grew up there?

MARY TIMONY: That’s interesting. We kind of did a switcheroo. I’m from D.C. and I moved to Boston. (In D.C.) I learned, as a teenager, about rock shows and rock music from being involved in the punk scene, the post-hardcore scene of kids here. Those are the shows I went to in high school. Basically, the Dischord (Records) bands and stuff. I saw every single Fugazi show from when they started in ’87. Before that, whatever was happening in 1985, hardcore shows by Swiz and Soulside and Kingface and I loved Ignition. Other than that, I would go see bluegrass out in Virginia and I loved go-go. I would go to see (go-go bands) Rare Essence and Trouble Funk. I was very into that stuff; that was really exciting. I think I liked go-go the most out of all of it, actually [laughs]. I would go to DC Space and 9:30 (Club), mostly for local (acts). I don’t think I ever saw BETTY, but I was a teenager then.

BLADE: Was the active music scene in Boston in the early 1990s part of the appeal for you when it came to relocating to Boston to attend Boston University?

TIMONY: The reason why I went there was because I wanted to go to a music program that was in a big university, in case I didn’t wanna study music the whole time, which is exactly what happened. I studied classical guitar for a year and then I didn’t really like the program much, so I transferred to study English. I found out about the (Boston) music scene from friends. We went to The Middle East (nightclub) and TT’s (T.T. The Bear’s nightclub). Then after college, I ended up living right down the street from The Middle East and I was there constantly.

BLADE: Good old Central Square! As a performer playing in bands including Autoclave, Helium, and Ex Hex, and as a solo artist with her own band, it’s not unreasonable to say that Mary, you are someone who plays well with others. 

TIMONY: [Big laugh.]

BLADE: What makes you such a good team player?

TIMONY: I didn’t know I was [laughs]. I’ve gone back and forth between doing solo stuff and being in bands. Mostly, I’ve done projects where I’ve written a bunch of songs and I’m trying to…I haven’t done a ton of collaborative stuff really. Ex Hex was fun because it was more collaborative. Wild Flag, the same thing, totally 100% collaborative in every way. But Helium was really my thing, but I got some great people that totally influenced it. I’ve always been doing my own thing but tried to find really good people. Music really is about connection. It’s never as good if it’s only one person’s vision. Usually, if it’s good it’s good because of the connection between the musicians. Music is a social art form, I think.

BLADE: “Untame The Tiger” is the title of your new album. In 1999, Joni Mitchell titled her album “Taming The Tiger.” Are you, in any way, making a nod to Joni?

TIMONY: A little bit because I am a huge fan. I have been since I was 18. But, it sort of came to me because I have a song called that on the record and I’m sure that probably came from ripping off Joni Mitchell. Then I just thought that’s a cool name for a record. Then I thought, “Oh, shit!” [Laughs] It’s already been taken! Then I thought about it and then I forgot about it. Then I thought about it again and finally, I was like, “It’s OK. It’s a little bit different.” And I love her!

BLADE: I’m currently reading Ann Powers’ book “Traveling: On the Path of Joni Mitchell,” which comes out in June.

TIMONY: Oh, I’m definitely going to have to read.

BLADE: Yes, please add that to your reading list. “Untame The Tiger” is your first new solo studio album in 15 years. Are there things you write and sing about on your solo records that might be out of place on an album you would record with another one of your musical outfits?

TIMONY: Yes. That’s why this ended up being a solo record. I guess it was because of the tuning of my guitar. They were more or less finished songs. I wanted the songs to sound kind of acoustic. I also wanted to play with a bunch of musicians who I really love. All those things just made it seem like a solo record. If I’m writing for a band, like Ex Hex, which is basically the other band that I do right now, they’re not finished. I bring them in (to the band members) with that band in mind.

BLADE: I love the lush instrumental section on “Thirds” and the psychedelic sounds of “Looking For The Sun” and “The Guest.” Were there things you were listening to while writing the songs for “Untame The Tiger” that were inspiring to you?

TIMONY: I was listening to a lot of music, a ton of stuff. I don’t ever try to purposely emulate anything very often, but I can’t help it. I’d rather be influenced by stuff without really thinking about it too consciously. I always have loved listening to The Left Banke’s instrumentation and The Moody Blues’ string parts. Most of the string parts come from trying to emulate The Moody Blues [laughs] or The Left Banke. I’m obsessed with The Left Banke.

BLADE: “Walk Away Renée,” right?

TIMONY: Yes. This guy, Michael Brown, was such a genius. He wrote so much stuff as a teenager. His dad was a string arranger. Anyway, I love those string parts. I was listening to this prog-rock band The Strawbs and this early (Ronnie) Dio band Elf. (The Flying) Burrito Brothers and The Byrds, too. I love Fairport Convention and Steeleye Span. Richard Thompson and I was really obsessed with Gerry Rafferty’s early solo record called “Can I Have My Money Back?” I love that record. I was listening to it a ton when I was arranging the songs.

BLADE: Why was the song “Dominoes” selected as the first single from “Untame The Tiger?”

TIMONY: I don’t know. I let other people tell me [laughs]. I really hate sequencing records and I hate choosing singles. I’m just too close to it. I can’t tell what people are going to like or not. A lot of times, the ones that I like are not the ones that other people like. I asked (the people at) the label and they suggested that. I think it’s more poppy sounding. Dave Fridmann mixed that one and “Don’t Disappear” and he’s a genius mixer. and these mixers are always very pleasing and accessible sounding. I think that has something to do with it, too.

BLADE: Earlier, we talked about your long history of playing music with others, which reminded me of your guest spot singing “All Dressed Up In Dreams,” written by gay singer/songwriter Stephin Merritt for his band The 6ths’ “Wasps’ Nest” album. 

TIMONY: He’s such a genius!

BLADE: How did that come about?

TIMONY: When I moved to Boston, for a year I lived with Claudia (Gonson of Merritt’s band The Magnetic Fields), who is his drummer. I lived in a group house in Cambridge. I was friends with Claudia, and Stephin lived a few blocks away. She told me he was making this record with guest singers they wanted to go over and sing on it. I went over there one day and he taught me the song and I sang on it.  I think he’s one of the best songwriters of the last 50 years or whatever.

BLADE: I completely agree. As someone who has collaborated with Stephin, are you aware of an LGBTQ+ following for your own music?

TIMONY: I don’t know. I think maybe a little bit. I’d love that. I love everybody who can connect with it, because all I’m trying to do is connect with people.

Mary Timony (Photo by Chris Grady)
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Sherry Vine is turning 60 — and she’s not quitting anytime soon

Legendary drag queen coming to D.C. for new show, ‘Smoke and Mirrors’

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Sherry Vine performs in D.C. on March 9. (Photo courtesy of Sherry Vine)

There are many things Sherry Vine is proud of. Throughout her 33-year-long career, the drag queen has accomplished so much — she’s released music, launched her own variety show and toured across the United States and Europe. 

But what she loves the most about her career is making people laugh. 

This calling to be a comedy queen started before her formal drag career. In high school, she remembers taking part in the musicals, and Vine would find joy in making people laugh by wittily changing song lyrics. 

“Then it just evolved into doing that as the act,” Vine said in an interview with the Blade. 

From the beginning of her career, she’s made singing live parodies a central part of her performance as a drag queen. And for her 60th birthday, she knew she wanted to put on an extravaganza. 

Vine is coming to the Woolly Mammoth on March 9 while on tour for her new show “Smoke and Mirrors,” performed and written by her. It’ll include new parodies, from Bruce Springsteen to ABBA. The D.C.-based drag queen Tara Hoot will be a special guest at the show. 

There’s a lot that led up to this milestone year for Vine. It all started with developing her character more than 30 years ago. 

Developing Sherry Vine

Vine describes her persona as a down-on-her-luck showgirl from Las Vegas with a heart of gold. 

She was always obsessed with stars like Joey Heatherton and Stella Stevens. Not to suggest those stars are down-on-their-luck showgirls, Vine said, but she wanted to evoke a sex kitten mentality. Her character eventually morphed into what it is today from these inspirations. 

But at first, Vine said she thought she had to look funny to be funny. 

“I didn’t care about the makeup. I didn’t wear big breasts. I just thought I had to look like a clown,” Vine said. 

When she moved to New York City in 1992, she was surrounded by queens who balanced being funny and gorgeous simultaneously. That was eye-opening for her, she said. 

Now, she relishes surprising people, she said. She’s been told she looks “too pretty” to be taken for a comedy queen, but that’s OK with her. 

“I want to walk out on stage, and anyone who’s never seen me, maybe they’re like, ‘Oh, she looks good,’” Vine said. “And then I started singing about poop and penis and they’re like, ‘Oh my gosh, she’s so stupid.’”

When she was starting out as a drag queen, Vine reflected that she didn’t envision doing drag as a career. She remembers not wanting to commit to it. She wanted to be a movie star, she said. 

“I kind of fought it. I loved it,” Vine said. “But I was like, I’m not doing this as a career.’”

But once she let go of fighting it, her career exploded. She got connected with RuPaul and was on two television specials in the 1990s. That support was crucial, Vine said, and helped her believe in herself more. 

“I was like, ‘Oh, OK. If this person thinks that I have something, then maybe I do,’” Vine said. 

Drag has changed — a lot 

(Photo courtesy of Sherry Vine)

The drag scene has changed drastically. Vine credits a lot of this transformation to “RuPaul’s Drag Race.” 

“When we started doing drag 30 years ago, no one in their right mind would have been like, ‘I’m going to do drag so I can make a lot of money and be famous,’” Vine said. 

Before RuPaul’s iconic single “Supermodel (You Better Work),” one of the only examples of drag the average consumer saw was “Mrs. Doubtfire,” Vine said.  

“You had to have a passion for it,” Vine said. “You had to have a calling.”

When Vine started, drag was a fringe art form that had an audience of mostly gay men. 

Nowadays, it’s mainstream. Drag is enjoyed by a much wider audience, and is more of a way to become famous. When Vine was coming up in the industry, there were few ways to get on TV and in films as a drag queen, short of playing a character that was murdered on “Law & Order,” she said. 

But even though drag has evolved and grown in popularity, Vine’s advice to drag queens has stayed the same over the years. 

“Don’t try to do something because you think someone else is doing it successfully,” Vine said. “Find what you do, and then exploit and explore that.”

Looking back, looking ahead 

Out of her multi-decade run as a drag queen, Vine said she’s most proud of the longevity of her career. There are a few people who have been in it as long as she has — Lady Bunny and Miss Coco Peru, for example. Few others have made it as long as Vine, she said.  

She stresses that she can’t take credit for creating things, but she takes pride in being one of the first drag queens to go viral on YouTube in the 2000s. Her “Bad Romance” parody, released in 2009, racked up more than 6 million views over the years. 

In the next few years, she’s looking into doing more television and film projects. Her latest show, “The Sherry Vine Variety Show,” just wrapped filming its third season. Creating this show is fulfilling a childhood dream of hers, she said. It’s an homage to “The Carol Burnett Show,” which Vine grew up watching. 

Whether it’s performing on camera or onstage, Vine doesn’t see herself quitting anytime soon. 

“I love performing and drag as much now as I did 33 years ago,” Vine said. “So I don’t see ever stopping.”

To get details on how to buy tickets to “Smoke and Mirrors,” visit woollymammoth.net/productions/sherry-vine.

(Image courtesy of Sherry Vine)
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Girls Rock! DC empowers young people through music, social justice education

Organization founded in October 2007

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Youth leaders of Girls Rock DC! (Washington Blade photo by Michael Key)

Girls Rock! DC, an organization operating at the intersection of art and activism, is dedicated to empowering young people through music and social justice education. 

Since its founding in October 2007; Girls Rock! DC has been creating a supportive, inclusive and equitable space that centers around girls and nonbinary youth, with a special emphasis on uplifting Black and Brown youth. At the core of Girls Rock! DC’s mission is a unique approach to music education, viewing it through a social justice and equity lens. 

“It’s a place where people can come explore their interest in music in a safe environment, figure out their own voice, and have a platform to say it,” Board Vice Chair Nicole Savage said.

This approach allows D.C.’s young people to build a sense of community and explore their passion for social change through after-school programs, workshops and camps.

The organization’s roots trace back to the first rock camp for girls in August 2001 in Portland, Ore. Similar camps have emerged worldwide since then, forming the International Girls Rock Camp Alliance. Girls Rock! DC is a member of this alliance, contributing to the larger community’s growth and advocacy for inclusivity in the music industry.

Girls Rock! DC’s annual programs now serve more than 100 young people and 20 adults, offering after-school programs and camps. Participants receive instruction on the electric guitar, the electric bass, keyboards, drum kits and other instruments or on a microphone and form bands to write and perform their own original songs. Beyond music, the program includes workshops on underrepresented histories in the music industry, community injustice issues and empowerment topics that include running for office and body positivity.

“I’ve been playing shows in the D.C. music scene for about six years, and I feel like Girls Rock! DC is the perfect amalgamation of everything that I stand for,” said Outreach Associate Lily Mónico. “So many music spaces are male dominated and I think there is a need for queer femme youth in music.”

Lily Mónico (Washington Blade photo by Michael Key)

The organization’s commitment to diversity and inclusion is evident not only in its leadership but also in the way it creates a safe space for queer and nonbinary individuals. Language is a crucial component, and Girls Rock! DC ensures that both campers and volunteers embrace inclusivity. 

“It is a very open and creative space, where there’s no judgment,” Zadyn Higgins, one of the youth leaders, emphasized. “It is the first time for a lot of us, to be in a space where we’re truly able to be ourselves.”

In creating a safe environment, Girls Rock! DC implements practices that include name tags with preferred names and pronouns, along with pronoun banners that help kids understand and respect diverse identities. 

“It’s really cool to watch these kids understand and just immediately get it,” said Higgins. 

Zadyn Higgins (Washington Blade photo by Michael Key)

Girls Rock! DC is also more than a music education organization; it’s a community where individuals can embark on a transformative journey that extends beyond their initial participation as campers. Many start their Girls Rock! DC experience as enthusiastic campers, learning to play instruments, forming bands and expressing their creativity in a supportive environment. The organization’s impact, however, doesn’t stop there. This inspiration leads them to volunteer and intern within the organization. 

The unique progression from camper to volunteer or intern, and eventually to a full-fledged role within the organization, exemplifies Girls Rock! DC as a place where growth is not confined to a single week of camp but extends into an ongoing, impactful journey. It’s a testament to the organization’s commitment to nurturing talent, empowering individuals and fostering a lifelong connection with the values for which Girls Rock! DC stands.

One of the highlights of Girls Rock! DC is its summer camp, where kids between 8-18 learn to play instruments, form bands, write songs and perform in just one week. Higgins shared a poignant moment from a showcase,

“To see them go from, like, crying a little bit about how scared they were to going out on the stage and performing their little hearts out was so sweet,” said Higgins.

(Photo courtesy of Frankie Amitrano of Girls Rock! D.C.)

Nzali Mwanza-Shannon, another youth leader, agreed that the camp is the highlight of the program. 

“The summer camp, I’ve met so many friends, and it’s always kind of scary coming up to the end, but after we get to perform and everything, I’m so grateful that I’ve gotten the opportunity to perform and meet new people and be so creative and do it all in a week,” said Mwanza-Shannon.

Forty-three young people who showcased their original songs and DJ sets at D.C.’s legendary 9:30 Club attended the first Girls Rock! DC camp in 2007. They performed to a crowd of 700 enthusiastic fans. The organization since then has grown exponentially, with each passing year bringing more energy, vibrancy and fun to the camp experience.

Since the pandemic, however, the organization has struggled financially, experiencing a funding shortage as well as reduced growth in attracting new members. 

Augusta Smith, who is a youth leader and a member of the band Petrichor, expressed concern about the potential impact on the unique and friendly environment that Girls Rock! DC provides. 

“We’ve kind of been really slow and barely making enough money. And this year, we’re having a funding shortage,” said Smith. 

The impact of Girls Rock! DC extends beyond musical skills, fostering leadership, self-expression and a passion for social change through creative collaboration and community power-building. Mwanza-Shannon hopes to be a part of Girls Rock! DC for a long time, 

“I want to keep on meeting new people,” said Mwanza-Shannon. “I want to keep on being able to perform at these different places and have different experiences.”

(Photo courtesy of Frankie Amitrano of Girls Rock! DC)
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