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Out in the World: LGBTQ news from Europe and Asia
Irish State Minister Jack Chambers has come out as gay
IRELAND

In an Instagram post on Sunday, Irish State Minister Jack Chambers, who is a member of the lower house of the Irish Parliament for Dublin West, the Teachta Dála, came out as gay.
Chambers wrote: “Here’s a look back at some of 2023. As I look forward to 2024 I am sharing with you something a little different but it’s something I wanted to do for a while.
As a politician it can sometimes be difficult to speak about my own personal life and that can lead to things drifting. However, It’s important for me to be true to myself firstly — and to you all in my public service role. I am starting 2024 by telling you all that I am proud to say that I am gay. 🏳️🌈
As a politician and citizen I want to share this today as part of who I am. Having shared it with many of my close family and friends, their support and love has given me the confidence and courage to share this publicly today.
I am fortunate that Ireland is a country that has made so many strides in recent years, — becoming a much more inclusive and equal society to the extent that the sharing of this information is becoming increasingly unremarkable.
I’m looking forward to a busy, productive and hard working year ahead as a TD for Dublin West along with my ministerial responsibilities and helping colleagues across the country as Fianna Fáil’s Director of Local Elections 2024.”
Reaction to the minister’s announcement was overwhelmingly positive including from his fellow Teachta Dála lawmaker, John Lahart, who wrote: “Proud of you Jack — the best colleague one could hope for. Always there for you whenever you need it. You’ve an amazing future ahead of you.”
SERBIA

In another of an ongoing series of attacks on the LGBTQ Pride Info Center in the Serbian capital city of Belgrade, an unknown suspect described only as a masked male, during the afternoon of on January 7, 2024, threw a series of objects at the glass front windows of the center shattering them completely.
In a press release, Goran Miletić, director of Europe and MENA Department at Civil Rights Defenders, stated that this is the 19th attack on Pride Info Center since its establishment in August 2017, and none of the previous attacks has been thoroughly investigated, nor have any of the perpetrators been prosecuted to date.
“We can’t ignore the ongoing danger and vulnerability the community faces. It’s crucial to act now and work together to guarantee the safety and well-being of everyone,” Miletić said.
Miletić went on to express solidarity with the Pride Info Center.
“Civil Rights Defenders has been supporting Pride Info Center since its opening. The center aims to raise awareness about the community, addressing its issues and challenges while also serving as an information point for Belgrade Pride and the broader LGBTQ+ movement. Additionally, it functions as a social and creativity hub, hosting exhibitions, performances, movie screenings, debates and discussions organized by various LGBTQ+ organizations.
We express solidarity with the LGBTQ+ community in the country in demanding justice and equal rights. Together, we strive for a world where love triumphs over hate. The attack is reprehensible because it undermines the very essence of inclusivity and acceptance and is a stark contradiction to the principles of understanding, respect, and unity. It is a call to action for us to stand together, unwavering in our commitment to create a society where diversity is celebrated and everyone can live free from fear.
We strongly condemn the attack and call on the Serbian authorities to thoroughly investigate the case and ensure accountability for those responsible.”
Nearly two years ago on Feb. 18, 2022, another individual had gained access to the center breaking furniture and other things and he threatened the staff. The man was escorted out by security guards and was arrested by a police patrol.
GREECE

Greek Prime Minister Kyriakos Mitsotakis in a Jan. 10 interview with state broadcaster ERT announced that his government intended to implement further LGBTQ rights.
The prime minister told ERT that a bill he had pledged in July 2023 to legalize same-sex marriages will be moving forward in the next few months.
“I, and all those who believe in this legislation, must convince our parliamentarians and subsequently those who may still have a negative stance,” Mitsotakis said. “What we are going to legislate is equality in marriage, which means the elimination of any discrimination based on sexual orientation. It is not something radically different from what applies in other European countries.”
Greece’s left-wing opposition leader, Stefanos Kasselakis, who married his longtime male partner Tyler Mcbeth in New York in October 2023, several weeks after winning a party leadership election, told reporters in a press conference last November that legislation legalizing same-sex marriage will be brought to the Greek Parliament before its current term expires in 2027.
The prime minister faces steep opposition from right-wing conservatives and the powerful Greek Orthodox Church. Opinion polls indicate that Greeks are evenly divided on the issue of same-sex marriage but generally oppose granting full parental rights to gay couples.
Mitsotakis stated that his proposed law would not extend to allowing same-sex couples to adopt children via surrogacy, saying: “We won’t change the law on assisted parenthood. The idea of women who are turned into child-producing machines on demand … That is not going to happen.”
It would, however, protect existing children of same-sex parents, including adopted children or those born to surrogacy abroad.
The legal clarification would mean that should one of the parents die, the other will be given parental rights.
A member of the church’s governing body, the Holy Synod, the Metropolitan of Piraeus, Seraphim, has threatened to excommunicate lawmakers if they voted in favor of legalizing same-sex unions, and has called homosexuality “an abuse of the body” and a “great sin.”
“The position of the Church of Greece remains that children have an innate need and therefore a right to grow up with a male father and a female mother. No amount of social modernization and no amount of political correctness can bypass (this),” the church said.
POLAND

A Polish nationwide daily economic and legal newspaper confirmed with a Warsaw District Court this week that two pardons issued before Christmas by President Andrzej Duda were given to two anchors of state television who were found guilty by the court of criminal defamation against a prominent activist for abortion and LGBTQ rights.
Magdalena Ogórek and Rafał Ziemkiewicz were given pardons in a case against the pair dating back to 2019. They were accused of defaming Elżbieta Podleśna, a licensed psychotherapist and civil rights activist who was a leading person in the Polish Women’s Strike protests in 2017 and 2018.
English language Polish media outlet Notes from Poland reported that in one episode of the news show W tyle wizji on TVP, the state broadcaster, the pair spoke about Podleśna, an activist best known for being put on trial for the crime of “offending religious feelings” by adding LGBTQ rainbow colors to an image of the Virgin Mary and Jesus.
During their show, Ogórek and Ziemkiewicz suggested that Podleśna, who is a practicing psychologist, used her “quasi-medical skills” to “manipulate” her “brainwashed” patients into attending protests.
In response, Podleśna launched action against the TV presenters using Poland’s criminal defamation law Notes from Poland reported. The pair were found guilty in December 2022, with an appeal against the conviction rejected in May 2023. As a punishment, Ogórek and Ziemkiewicz were ordered to pay Podleśna 10,000 zloty ($2,506.06) each.
TVP was heavily aligned with the anti-LGBTQ Law and Justice (PiS) government which suffered a major defeat this past fall. Duda’s office told Polish media that he had made the decision to pardon the pair based on “the principles of justice and rationality of criminal repression, as well as the incidental nature of the acts of the convicted persons.”
Notes from Poland noted that Duda was an ally of the former PiS government and approved a large increase in state funds for TVP, which subsequently supported the president during his successful 2020 re-election campaign.
Human Rights Watch issues World Report 2024

Editor’s note: The following article was provided by Human Rights Watch, an international NGO headquartered in New York that conducts research and advocacy on human rights.
Global leaders have failed to take strong stands to protect human rights during 2023, a year of some of the worst crises and challenges in recent memory, with deadly consequences, Human Rights Watch said today in its World Report 2024. Governments should stop engaging in transactional diplomacy and do their utmost to uphold universal human rights principles.
Renewed armed conflict between the Israeli government and Hamas caused tremendous suffering, as did conflicts in Ukraine, Myanmar, Ethiopia and the Sahel. The year 2023 was the hottest since global records began in 1880 and the onslaught of wildfires, drought and storms wreaked havoc on communities from Bangladesh to Libya to Canada. Economic inequality rose around the world, as did anger about the policy decisions that have left so many people struggling to survive.
“The international system that we rely on to protect human rights is under threat as world leaders look the other way when universal principles of human rights are violated,” said Tirana Hassan, executive director at Human Rights Watch. “Every time a country overlooks these universal and globally accepted principles, someone pays a price and that price is sometimes peoples’ lives.”
In the 740-page World Report 2024, its 34th edition, Human Rights Watch reviews human rights practices in more than 100 countries. In her introductory essay, Executive Director Tirana Hassan says that 2023 was a consequential year not only for human rights suppression and wartime atrocities but also for selective government outrage and transactional diplomacy that carried profound costs for the rights of those not in on the deal. But she says there were also signs of hope, showing the possibility of a different path, and calls on governments to consistently uphold their human rights obligations.
Governments’ double standards in applying the human rights framework not only put countless lives at risk, but they chip away at trust in the institutions responsible for enforcing and protecting rights, Human Rights Watch said. When governments are vocal in condemning the Israeli government’s war crimes against civilians in Gaza but silent when it comes to Chinese government crimes against humanity in Xinjiang, or demand international prosecution for Russian war crimes in Ukraine while undermining accountability for U.S. abuses in Afghanistan, they weaken the belief in the universality of human rights and the legitimacy of the laws designed to protect them.
Governments have found it easier to disregard human rights issues in the international arena in part because their violations of human rights at home have gone unchallenged by the international community, Human Rights Watch said.
The human rights and humanitarian crises have led many to question the effectiveness of the human rights framework, when abusive governments are able to benefit from the lukewarm endorsement of a rights approach by more democratic and rights-respecting governments, Human Rights Watch said. Civil society organizations, grassroots movements and human rights defenders can help to re-establish the human rights framework as the roadmap to building thriving, inclusive societies.
Many governments that condemned Hamas’ war crimes have been reserved in responding to those by the Israeli government. The unwillingness to call out Israeli government abuses follows from the United States and most European Union member countries’ refusal to urge an end to the Israeli government’s 16-year closure of Gaza.
Tradeoffs on human rights in the name of politics are clear when many governments fail to speak out about the Chinese government’s intensifying repression. Chinese authorities’ cultural persecution and arbitrary detention of a million Uyghurs and other Turkic Muslims amount to crimes against humanity, yet many governments, including in predominantly Muslim countries, stay silent.
In Sudan, which descended into armed conflict in April 2023 when the two most powerful Sudanese generals began battling each other for power, the U.N. has failed to stop massive abuses against civilians, most notably in the Darfur region. The U.N. Security Council closed its political mission in Sudan at the insistence of the Sudanese government, ending what little remained of the U.N.’s in-country capacity to protect civilians and publicly report on the rights situation. It has also done nearly nothing to tackle the Sudanese government’s intransigence in cooperating with the International Criminal Court (ICC).
In the U.S., President Joe Biden has shown little appetite to hold responsible human rights abusers who are key to his domestic agenda or those in China’s sphere of influence. US allies like Saudi Arabia, India and Egypt continue to violate the rights of their people on a massive scale.
The EU has circumvented its human rights obligations, pushing asylum seekers and migrants back to other countries or striking deals with abusive governments like Libya and Turkey to keep migrants out. Democratic governments in the Asia-Pacific region, including Japan, South Korea, and Australia consistently deprioritize human rights in the name of assuring military alliances and trade.
Under Prime Minister Narendra Modi, India’s democracy has slid toward autocracy, with authorities targeting minorities, tightening repression and dismantling independent institutions.
In Tunisia, President Kais Saied has eliminated checks and balances. El Salvador’s President Nayib Bukele has manipulated high levels of crime for a security crackdown to grab and consolidate power. In Bangladesh, Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina’s government ordered the arrest of over 10,000 opposition leaders and supporters ahead of the January 2024 election.
But just as these threats are interconnected, so too is the power of the human rights framework to protect people’s freedom and dignity.
In a milestone decision, in November, the International Court of Justice ordered the Syrian government to prevent torture and other abuses. The Japanese parliament passed its first law to protect lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people from “unfair discrimination.” In Mexico, a civil society coalition persuaded Congress to pass a law establishing full legal capacity, benefiting millions of people with disabilities and older people.
In March, the ICC issued arrest warrants for Russian President Vladimir Putin and his children’s rights commissioner for war crimes relating to the forcible transfer of children from occupied territories of Ukraine to Russia. Brazil’s Supreme Court upheld all Indigenous peoples’ rights to their traditional lands, one of the most effective barriers against deforestation in the Amazon.
And in November, the United Kingdom’s highest court unanimously found that Rwanda is not a safe third country for the government to send asylum seekers, striking down an agreement that effectively shifted the UK’s asylum responsibilities to Rwanda.
“Human rights crises around the world demonstrate the urgency of applying longstanding and mutually agreed principles of international human rights law everywhere,” Hassan said. “Principled diplomacy, by which governments center their human rights obligations in their relations with other countries, can influence oppressive conduct and have a meaningful impact for people whose rights are being violated.”
Additional reporting from Greek Public Broadcasting ERT, Notes from Poland, PinkNewsUK, Agence France-Presse, the BBC and Human Rights Watch.
Egypt
Iran, Egypt object to playing in Seattle World Cup ‘Pride Match’
Game to take place on June 26
Iran and Egypt have objected to playing in a “Pride Match” that will take place in Seattle during the 2026 World Cup.
The Egyptian Football Association on Tuesday said it told FIFA Secretary General Mattias Grafström in a letter that “it categorically rejects holding any activities related to supporting (homosexuality) during the match between the Egyptian national team and Iran, scheduled to be held in Seattle, USA, on June 26, 2026, in the third round of the group stage of the 2026 World Cup.” Football Federation Islamic Republic of Iran President Mehdi Taj told ISNA, a semi-official Iranian news agency that both his country and Egypt “protested this issue.”
The 2026 World Cup will take place in the U.S., Canada, and Mexico. The draw took place at the Kennedy Center on Dec. 5.
Iran is among the handful of countries in which consensual same-sex sexual relations remain punishable by death.
The State Department’s 2023 human rights report notes that while Egyptian law “did not explicitly criminalize consensual same-sex sexual activity, authorities regularly arrested and prosecuted LGBTQI+ persons on charges including ‘debauchery,’ prostitution, and ‘violating family values.’” Egyptian authorities “also reportedly prosecuted LGBTQI+ individuals for ‘misuse of social media.’”
“This resulted in de facto criminalization of same-sex conduct and identity,” notes the report.
The 2024 human rights report the State Department released earlier this year did not include LGBTQ-specific references.
Soccer has ‘unique power to unite people across borders, cultures, and beliefs’
The June 26 match between Iran and Egypt coincides with Seattle Pride. The Washington Post reported the Seattle FIFA World Cup 2026 Local Organizing Committee decided to hold the “Pride Match” before last week’s draw.
“As the Local Organizing Committee, SeattleFWC26’s role is to prepare our city to host the matches and manage the city experience outside of Seattle Stadium,” said SeattleFWC26 Vice President of Communications Hana Tadesse in a statement the committee sent to the Washington Blade on Wednesday. “SeattleFWC26 is moving forward as planned with our community programming outside the stadium during Pride weekend and throughout the tournament, partnering with LGBTQ+ leaders, artists, and business owners to elevate existing Pride celebrations across Washington.”
“Football has a unique power to unite people across borders, cultures, and beliefs,” added Tadeese. “The Pacific Northwest is home to one of the nation’s largest Iranian-American communities, a thriving Egyptian diaspora, and rich communities representing all nations we’re hosting in Seattle. We’re committed to ensuring all residents and visitors experience the warmth, respect, and dignity that defines our region.”
The 2034 World Cup will take place in Saudi Arabia.
Consensual same-sex sexual relations remain punishable by death in the country. The 2022 World Cup took place in neighboring Qatar, despite concerns over the country’s anti-LGBTQ rights record.
Spain
Victory Institute honors transgender Spanish senator in D.C.
Carla Antonelli describes Trump policies as ‘absolutely terrifying’
The LGBTQ+ Victory Institute on Dec. 5 inducted Spanish Sen. Carla Antonelli into its LGBTQ+ Political Hall of Fame.
Antonelli in 2011 became the first openly transgender woman elected to a regional legislative office in Spain when she won a seat in the Madrid Assembly.
She left Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez’s leftist Spanish Socialist Workers’ Party in 2022. Antonelli in 2023 became the first openly trans woman in the Spanish Senate when Más Madrid, a progressive regional party, named her Pablo Gómez Perpinyà’s successor in the chamber.
The Hall of Fame induction took place during the Victory Institute’s annual International LGBTQ+ Leaders Conference at the JW Marriott Hotel in downtown D.C. The Washington Blade spoke with Antonelli on Dec. 6.
“We are living in rather turbulent times, hence the importance and necessity of gatherings like this one … to unite in these times, come together, and develop common strategies and policies.”
Antonelli, 66, grew up in Güímar, a municipality on the island of Tenerife in Spain’s Canary Islands.
She said transphobia forced her to leave her hometown in 1977, and she turned to sex work to support herself. Antonelli’s political activism began that year when she joined the campaign against a 1970 law that criminalized consensual same-sex sexual acts and LGBTQ people.
General Francisco Franco, whose regime governed the country from 1936-1975, approved the Law on Social Danger and Rehabilitation. Spain in 1995 removed the statute’s remaining provisions from its penal code.
Antonelli in the 1980s became a well-known actress. She is also a former spokesperson for Federación Estatal de Lesbianas, Gays, Transexuales y Bisexuales, a Spanish LGBTQ advocacy group known by the acronym FELGTB.
‘We will not go back to the margins’
Antonelli in February gave an impassioned speech in support of trans rights on the Senate floor.
She specifically singled out members of Vox, a far-right political party, over their efforts to repeal a landmark 2023 law that allows people who are at least 16 to legally change their gender without medical intervention. Antonelli’s speech — and her proclamation that “we will not go back to the margins” — quickly went viral.
Antonelli told the Blade she received messages of support from people in Algeria, Australia, Turkey, Mauritius, and elsewhere around the world. She added her speech was “the conclusion of everything I can feel at any given moment, also the pride of having lived through all these historical processes.”
“For whatever reason, I was born in ’59, and I lived through the dictatorship in my country,” said Antonelli. “I lived through the dictator’s death and I lived through what Spain was like exactly 50 years ago. It began to walk in freedom, and so freedom must be defended.”
Antonelli feared US would not allow her into the country
The Victory Institute conference took place less than a year after the Trump-Vance administration took office.
Antonelli in June traveled to D.C. and participated in WorldPride 2025. She admitted the White House’s anti-trans policies left her wondering whether the U.S. would allow her into the country as a trans woman.
The White House only recognizes two genders: male and female.
President Donald Trump after he took office signed an executive order that bans the State Department from issuing passports with “X” gender markers. U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services in August announced it will ensure “male aliens seeking immigration benefits aren’t coming to the U.S. to participate in women’s sports.”
Spain is among the countries that have issued advisories for trans and nonbinary people who are planning to visit the U.S.
“This speaks volumes about the policies of intimidation and targeting they’re implementing, policies that have made trans people scapegoats for all of humanity’s ills,” Antonelli told the Blade.
“In the United States, now with Trump, it’s absolutely terrifying because we’re talking about not just taking away a right, they’re going against our lives, against our very existence,” she added.
Antonelli in June met U.S. Rep. Sarah McBride (D-Del.), the first openly trans woman elected to Congress. Antonelli told the Blade she “watched with sorrow” how U.S. Rep. Nancy Mace (R-S.C.) and other Republicans treated the Delaware Democrat after her historic 2024 election.
“The first thing some vengeful scoundrels, thirsty for evil, do is prohibit her from entering the women’s restrooms,” said Antonelli.
“It’s nothing more than a desire to humiliate, to degrade,” she added. “Behind many of these policies lies a desire to do harm. In other words, these are bad people, evil people whose principles aren’t an ideology. They revel in it. They enjoy thinking about how they are making other human beings suffer.”
Antonelli also stressed “visibility” is “freedom.”
“The more they try to erase us, the more we have to be visible,” she said. “They know perfectly well that visibility inevitably leads to normality, to normalization, which is nothing more than what is repeated daily, routinely. What’s normal is what you see every day, so they’re trying to prevent us from being visible in every way possible, because what they don’t want is for society to accept, to live with this truth.”
Antonelli also offered advice for trans people who want to run for office.
“Always be upfront,” she said. “Don’t hold back, but above all, don’t forget where you come from. Because you might be lucky enough to rise and become a representative of the people, but don’t forget your origins.”
Antonelli noted she is the Más Madrid spokesperson for health, equality, culture, and other issues, but added she “will never, never, never abandon my trans sisters and the LGBTQ+ community.”
“I never severed times with my roots,” Antonelli told the Blade. “My roots are a conservative family, a town I had to flee and to which I didn’t return until 32 years later. My future, my past, is a street corner. My past is being able to make that journey in a democracy and go from that street corner to a seat in the Madrid Assembly and then from there to a seat in the Senate. And that is precisely the greatness of democracy.”
She ended the interview by a quote she gave to El País, a Spanish newspaper.
“Those who used to call us faggots have to now call us ‘your honors,’” said Antonelli.
What does longing for your child look like? What happens when they resurface in front of you, when that rift was once an immeasurable open sea — a searing pain that silently hollowed you out for decades? For the child wrenched away by circumstance and thrown into the purgatory of always feeling in-between: in between home, in between being a whole person, in between who you could have been and who you are now — what does it mean to become and belong?
In filmmaker Jota Mun’s documentary “Between Goodbyes”, the fragmented yearning for home, family and identity are woven together into a tremendous and at times dream-like contemplation of the self, focused on various family members set adrift by a deceitful international adoption machine.
The story is focused on Mieke Murkes, a queer Korean adoptee who grew up in the rural village of Vaassen in the Netherlands. Shortly after her birth in 1982, she was raised by Willy, a devout evangelical Christian woman. But the story does not begin with Mieke in Vaassen. It begins with Okgyun, her original mother, walking through an ephemeral meadow as she makes her way to a shoreline. This is our first point of loss.
It is important to understand how the stories of Okgyun and Mieke exist. In “Between Goodbyes”, we see a frustrating glimpse into the cultural and political forces that created this separation. Since 1955, 200,000 children have been adopted from South Korea, and just three years ago, several of these adoptees found that their documents had been falsified. Murkes would sift through her own papers in “Between Goodbyes”, noting their dull and rote descriptions of her physical appearance and health. “The paperwork is as if you’re buying a new car,” Murkes says.
Written nearby: “Both parents are unknown,” a falsehood that leaves the family breathless. It is a gut punch.
This March, a South Korean governmental agency admitted that it had violated the rights of adoptees, but an investigation that began in 2022 at the behest of over 350 Korean adoptees has been halted. Whether or not retribution can ever be paid is up in the air, but the reeling grief and complicated self-reckoning many of these adoptees and their families face are rendered and expressed with deep tenderness in Mun’s documentary. “I did not know how to fit the Korean part of me in there,” Murkes said.
When Okgyun was pregnant with Mieke, she was also raising three other daughters: Mijin, Mikyung and Taekyung. The population was booming, and mothers like herself were being shamed for continuing to have children. Considering abortion, Okgyun recounts a midwife who convinced her not to go through with it — that if the child were a boy, she should keep him. If it turned out to be a girl, she could give her away to live “a good life” in the U.S. “Men are always positioned above women,” Okgyun said. “I always hated that.”
After Mieke was born, Okgyun’s mother-in-law told her to give her away. “She was gone before I saw her face,” Okgyun said. “I let her go.” Her guilt tightens her throat, trembles in her voice. “I dreamed of Mieke a lot. I can’t tell you how many times,” Okgyun said. “Dreaming and forgetting, dreaming, and forgetting. The thought that kept me going is that one day I can find Mieke.”
What ensued was a several years-long search. Kwangho, Mieke’s original father, pleaded with an adoption agency for any leads about Mieke. They denied him several times and his desperation only grew. “I had to find her to be at peace before I die,” he said.
Meanwhile, Mieke’s own grief and confusion were compounding. When she was beginning to discover her queerness, she was deeply ingrained in local religious spaces. What made her feel free, the church treated as an aberration — as behavior that resulted from loss.
When she would eventually meet her original family, they, too, had trouble processing her queer identity and masculine presentation. To them, queerness was “acquired” from being raised in a foreign land. With time, they grew to embrace Mieke and her partner, Marit, even as misunderstandings arose. Of this, Mieke’s conflictedness is explored. Gay rights are more advanced and accepted in the Netherlands than in South Korea, but this does not mean contending with her queerness would have been easy with her adoptive mother, Willy. “It probably would have disappointed her a lot,” Mieke tearfully revealed.
Mieke’s stepping in between knowing and unknowing is reminiscent of Okgyun’s dreaming and forgetting — their grief and confusion move within them, replicating themselves over and over again. “Between Goodbyes” dives deeply into this in order to offer a portrait of healing: of its complications and the necessity of community support to achieve this.
Mun discusses the film with the Los Angeles Blade, diving into how reunification between adoptees and original family members is, in many ways, made nearly impossible by factors like language and cultural barriers enforced and held tightly in place by the international adoption system. This film illustrates a break in this narrative and the mighty efforts behind it all.
A broadcast version of “Between Goodbyes” is now available to stream on PBS. See below for more information.
Can you tell me about the inception of making “Between Goodbyes”? Have you always wanted to tell a story about international Korean adoption from a queer perspective?
As a queer Korean adoptee myself, [there are] so many intersections that I haven’t quite seen on screen before. So I was always really excited about making something about my community. And then I’d say, in 2017, is around when I started getting closer to zeroing in on the idea. I think part of it was through befriending Mieke and hearing her parents’ story. Hearing about their efforts really blew my mind.
So much of the standard narrative is that adoptees initiate the search. So even before meeting [Okgyun and Kwangho], it just felt like it spoke so loudly of not only their character, but a piece of the puzzle that I had never considered — that they could be longing for us. And I think as an adoptee, you always wonder what [your original parents] would think. So it’s very noticeable that we almost don’t ever hear from them directly. Even in narrative stories of adoption, they’re usually deleted, or they’re written in a really flat way that feels like they’re serving the plot. I’ve never seen a depiction of birth mothers in particular who are questioning their own circumstances or feel angry about it.
There’s a lot of nuance given to all of the different people that we see in the story. The pain is layered and deep, and we don’t just view it from one perspective. What was it like having to portray this hurt, when many adoption stories typically focus solely on the adoptee’s emotional and personal journey?
It’s so unique through each lens, even though it’s the same pain. Like her sisters — of course, it’s going to affect them. Even if she never said anything, they must have felt it. It just ripples out to everyone and keeps expanding.
Originally, it was focused on Mieke, because that’s who I had the most access to, and she’s the closest to me in terms of general identity markers. So in my mind, I felt more confident that I could tell her story in a nuanced way. But what about Okgyun? I was hitting a similar barrier of communication that Mieke had hit. That’s part of why our main producer, Zoe Sua Cho, was so essential in conveying more about Okygun and the original family’s side of the story.
When I was in the early stages of developing the film, there was a quote that I felt was really inspirational: “In our hurting, we did not realize that we were stolen from each other” (by SN Désirée Cha from Outsiders Within Writing on Transracial Adoption.) The same quote came back to me in the edit and helped us find a narrative structure that went beyond just one person’s perspective.
What if the main character is the collective trauma, a singular event that causes the family to splinter and suffer across decades? I wanted to explore how tempting it is in these moments of righteous anger at systemic problems to end up fighting with each other. I feel like they both had to mourn something that was so much bigger than any one family. Mieke’s adoption affected so many people that I almost wanted that to be the main character. How do we not get lost in that pain and still try to come back together? It’s too much to carry alone.
So the main character is not necessarily one person, but the issue that you’re trying to tackle throughout the story. It also makes me think about how the documentary itself, or the making of it, also participates in this community healing that I feel like was the focus of “Between Goodbyes”.
I hope it’s an important layer. Suffice to say I think I always deflect to name a singular main character. I wanted to show everyone’s point of view while of course highlighting especially Okgyun and Mieke.
What else can you share about your approach to filmmaking?
You know, I was on this wonderful panel earlier this year, hosted by A-DOC, and I kind of surprised myself in preparing for it. I realized, actually, I have a lot of strong beliefs on filmmaking ethics that I hope come through in the film. For example, I reject the genius artist myth. The fantasy that if an artist is talented enough, they get permission to treat everyone around them terribly. That exploitation and squeezing things out of people is the best way to make great art.
Instead, I want to believe that the sensitivity, the care, and emotional work I poured in is going to come shining through in the film. And I do think that’s part of why we witnessed so many intensely vulnerable moments that I couldn’t have predicted.
This emotional connection to the film is also, visually, represented in artistic and inventive ways. There are sequences interspersed throughout that feel dream-like and cinematic. Creatively, what was it like to structure and craft how you wanted those scenes to be, the weight that they carried, and why you wanted to represent them in that way?
Aw, thanks for saying so! I was clear from the beginning that I wanted certain moments in the film to look as cinematic and epically life-changing as they feel in real life. Because visually, sometimes these moments of heartbreak can look rather dull. The deep heartbreak of a farewell at the airport. What does it look like? It looks like two people hugging in a very normal-looking terminal. But that’s not what it feels like. It feels larger than life. So to me, every single one of the art [scenes] has a very literal symbolism in my mind.
I really enjoy the complexity given to the family, both through the artistic symbolism and through the different angles we get to view them in. When it comes to Mieke’s queer identity, there are varying levels of acceptance and also tension that co-exist. One of her sisters, Mikyung, skirts around terms and labels, instead saying Mieke is “like that,” and “I don’t know anyone like that.” There was this feeling that queerness is learned or acquired elsewhere — that Mieke “wouldn’t have turned out like that” if she had grown up with her original family in Korea.
I can’t be sure what they were implying but you know, I definitely didn’t want to fall into a common trope of seeing Western values as being so liberal and accepting and framing all other cultures as homophobic. I want to be clear that there is a queer community in Seoul. It’s not the same as Amsterdam, of course, but it does exist.
That’s part of why it was important for me to include Mieke mentioned what she thinks her Dutch mom would have thought — just to clarify that homophobes are everywhere. There are plenty of them here in the West as well. Mieke’s Dutch parents were Evangelist Christians. So it’s not like everyone in the West is free to be a lesbian, you know?
Another moment that struck me in the film was a moment where we, as the audience, get to see you clearly. In this scene, we see you and Mieke on a rooftop, and you’re consoling her as she’s trying to prepare for a difficult conversation with her original mother, Okgyun. Did you have to find a balance in terms of being the director of this film and being Mieke’s friend?
It was really important to me to show friendship and how much that can help you along the journey. You think that for her to emotionally process things, it would have to be with her mom. But that rooftop conversation felt so transformative in itself. And then what ended up being the kind of mirror scene to that was Okgyun talking to Ruth [a fellow original mother]. She needed a buddy, too. How many times in life are we like: the opposing party doesn’t need to get it, but if my friend just could — that would give me so much relief and patience to enter the actual conversation with the person I’m upset with.
Being so personally close to Mieke and her family meant that my film was about all people I loved and cared about. I think the documentary field comes from such a long history of an anthropological approach. It’s like, “I’ve helicoptered in, and I just met you, but I’m the expert artist.” I wish the ethos were the opposite; we need to care about everyone, from the participants to the crew. I don’t want the blood, sweat, and tears to come through on the screen. I hope that watching it makes people feel cloaked in tenderness and care.
I was so worried about everyone, probably too much. It’s such a weird thing to ask people to do, to be in a film, so I took that with a lot of responsibility. Be aware of the impact you’re having. I am having an effect on this family’s life. I almost wanted to be like: “Forget my art project.” This is about the rest of their lives as a family, and that’s more important. So it became a light on my path, trying to make decisions as best I could to have a positive impact on their relationship.
It almost made me question my ethics in a different direction. “Am I intervening too much?” And that’s a strange thing: I have to admit I exist. I’m not a fly on the wall. And I think that’s why the conversation on the roof was really the most vulnerable for me, because I was showing myself. I’ve actually been here the whole time, cheering them on or trying to diffuse tension. I set out to make a film about how hard it is to stay in reunion, but now I’ve realized I’ll be heartbroken if their reunion doesn’t last. So in many ways the film was really just a vehicle for my attempt at keeping us all connected across so many distances, and that’s my own emotional journey or connection to their story.
Mun plans to release the full-length film in 2026, along with deleted scenes and additional footage. Up-to-date information can be found on the film’s Instagram page.
