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NOM’s anti-LGBT ‘March for Marriage’ set for June 17

Anti-LGBT group tamps down expectations of poor attendance



NOM, National Organization for Marriage, gay news, Washington Blade
NOM, National Organization for Marriage, gay news, Washington Blade

The March for Marriage is set for June 17 in D.C. (Washington Blade file photo by Michael Key)

The annual anti-gay “March for Marriage” in Washington D.C. will take place on June 17, the anti-LGBT organization behind the event announced in an email blast Wednesday.

Brian Brown, president of the National Organization of Marriage, says in the email blast his organization continues its mission to oppose same-sex marriage nearly two years after the the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in favor of marriage equality nationwide.

“The March for Marriage is an important event to keep the fight to restore marriage in the public eye,” the email blast says. “It was in 2015 when the U.S. Supreme Court issued their illegitimate, anti-constitutional ruling in Obergefell v. Hodges imposing gay ‘marriage’ on the nation and unleashing a flood of consequences for the overwhelming majority of Americans who continue to revere marriage as the union of one man and one woman.”

The email blast doesn’t indicate where in D.C. the march will take place, but in years past the event has transpired on the National Mall.

Brown, soliciting donations in the email of up to $1,000 or more, insists a new opportunity to overturn the Obergefell decision is at hand in the aftermath of Trump’s election to the White House.

“With the election of Donald Trump, and several vacancies on the Supreme Court expected during his term, we have a real chance to reverse this ruling in the short-term,” Brown writes. “The appointment of Justice Neil Gorsuch is a great first step. Now we likely need just one justice from the majority ruling in Obergefell to retire and we could be in a position to reverse that ruling. Rumors are flying that such a retirement could occur as early as this summer.”

Trump’s campaign on opposition to same-sex marriage, but after his election said he’s “fine” with the Supreme Court decision and believes the issue is “settled.” However, Trump has nominated the newly confirmed U.S. Associate Justice Neil Gorsuch to the U.S. Supreme Court, whom LGBT advocates say is a danger to LGBT rights and the marriage decision.

According to the email blast, the march this year is hosted by the Freedom’s Journal Institute for the Study of Faith & Public Policy, a conservative non-profit that bills itself as an institution committed to individual liberty and family values.

NOM has the hosted “March for Marriage” annually for several years. The event has drawn names like perennial Republican presidential candidate and former Sen. Rick Santorum, but the numbers of attendees has dwindled considerably as time passes. According to ThinkProgress, the 2016 march was “a complete flop” with an estimated attendance of 250 people.

In a post scriptum to the email blast, Brown urges supporters to disregard predictions among LGBT advocates the “March for Marriage” will be poorly attended.

“Last year’s March for Marriage blew people away when approximately 400 people attended,” Brown writes. “LGBT extremists who had predicted the death of NOM could not believe their eyes at the crowd of supporters who gathered in D.C. to support true marriage. Let’s make 2017 even more successful! Please make a generous financial contribution to support our work.”

NOM’s event is set to take place just days after the Equality March for Unity & Pride, an anti-Trump LGBT march on Washington set for June 11, and D.C.’s annual Pride festivities scheduled to take place the same weekend.

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  1. lnm3921

    April 27, 2017 at 9:23 pm

    I always said that like anti-abortion activists who march every year in Washington against it, you could expect this to happen on marriage. It’s best that the GLBT community stop taking for granted that this is settled law! Like abortion, these extremists won’t let it go! We shouldn’t either!

    • spyro20

      April 28, 2017 at 1:44 am

      or we can just kill all the discriminative bastards who act like they own people and the world and no sense of equality and peace. all extremists who are against something natural and normal and enjoy killing innocent people should be wiped off the face of the earth this includes hypocritical, delusional religious fools.

      • OldBut YoungMoney

        April 28, 2017 at 6:47 am

        You should be under FBI surveillance. Better yet, you should be sent to prison for this statement, among other things.

        • Joseph Singer

          April 28, 2017 at 8:26 am

          He just stated what we sometimes think in our darkest of hearts, you know.

        • spyro20

          April 28, 2017 at 1:23 pm

          excuse me but there are innocent people being murdered for no reason in certain countries like russia where they set up concentration camps because of their sexuality as we speak, we have restaurants who won’t serve people because of their sexuality. how inhumane can that get? all of that is illegal and a true crime how many people have to be murdered for no reason while other sit back and say and do nothing? if you support that then you are a sick person.

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            April 28, 2017 at 1:28 pm

            If people are killed, that’s one thing. I thought you meant like kill someone like me.

          • spyro20

            April 28, 2017 at 1:31 pm

            i meant kill people who commit horrible crimes such as what i mentioned.

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            April 28, 2017 at 1:32 pm

            “kill all the discriminative bastards”, I thought you were talking about me too. Sorry I misunderstood.

          • spyro20

            April 28, 2017 at 1:33 pm

            are you a homophobe? racist? sexist?

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            April 28, 2017 at 1:34 pm

            I am a “homophobe”, but not a racist or sexist.

          • spyro20

            April 28, 2017 at 1:36 pm

            then why are you here?

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            April 28, 2017 at 1:46 pm

            Because I was looking up Anthony Kennedy’s retirement and this crap somehow came up.

          • spyro20

            April 28, 2017 at 1:52 pm

            i bet you’re lying, either way if you knew this was not the place you were looking for why bother comment in the first place? are you retarded?

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            April 28, 2017 at 1:54 pm

            Are you? I have freedom to go where I want just like you nutters do all the time. Anything involving this topic you people swarm too even if it’s a place that doesn’t have your view. So cut the bs. Furthermore, I was skimming through different articles actually and I eventually landed on this one.

          • spyro20

            April 28, 2017 at 1:58 pm

            no, YOU cut the BS thats a poor excuse to use, if i am against something that never intentionally appeared before me on purpose then i am able to avoid it, you choose not to avoid it cause you wanted to engage in what people are saying, i’ve been there myself, you’d be smart enough next time not to make this same mistake again.

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            April 28, 2017 at 2:01 pm

            Let’s just play along, so what if I chose not to avoid it?

          • spyro20

            April 28, 2017 at 2:07 pm

            then you wouldn’t be arguing with me and/or anyone else who’d be on here. cause right now i’m stating facts of things i know all about over the years unlike you who only is using religion which is obviously not natural, did i ever mentioned that i grew up under christianity?

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            April 28, 2017 at 2:12 pm

            Where did I state anything about religion or Christianity? The closest thing I’ve said is sodomite, but that’s just because I refuse to say “gay”. I’m still not understanding why it matters if I chose not to avoid it. Perhaps I didn’t originally look for this, but I found it somehow in my searching of something else. Then, I saw that it was attacking nom in the headline and perhaps I was wondering what they had to spew about nom. Then, in order to find out what they’re saying, I have to click and read.

          • spyro20

            April 28, 2017 at 2:14 pm

            then say “gay” it’s much easier, i don’t even use the term “lesbian” cause i mean, whats the difference?

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            April 28, 2017 at 2:19 pm

            No, I won’t say “gay”. Why speak in euphemisms and do what the sodomites want? Why strengthen their self-victimizing hand?

          • spyro20

            April 28, 2017 at 2:32 pm

            actually i will not agree with everything a person does such as this “pride” thing but they do it to make themselves heard as normal, ordinary human beings –
            which they are and not be counted as nothing race, gender, sexuality all have two differences, white, black, male, female, heterosexual, homosexual yet all don’t have anything bad towards them since we all live in the same world, how long did it take for people of a different race and gender to fight for equality, now sexuality is another? humans are advanced but they sure don’t have the mentality to maintain peace compared to animals.

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            April 28, 2017 at 2:41 pm

            Yes, “they” try to lie about it. “They” are not, by the very definition of the word, normal. “They” behave unnaturally. Furthermore, no, race and gender are two innate immutable things. They’re nothing like sexual desire.

          • spyro20

            April 28, 2017 at 2:46 pm

            man you are so dumb, race, gender and sexuality are all the same, just because a person is gay what are the negative effects of it? cause all you’re saying is you just DISLIKE gays so like i said, HOW is a person of something personal such as their own sexuality negatively affecting you?

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            April 28, 2017 at 2:50 pm

            AHAHHAHAHA, race and gender, and sexual desires are not the same things… LMFAO. That’s the most delusional thing I have ever heard. Sodomite behavior is not like being a black person ffs. Yeah, and I said earlier shall list all the things wrong with sodomites but you didn’t respond really, do you want me to now?

          • spyro20

            April 28, 2017 at 2:52 pm

            the only thing delusional is a religious, psychotic fool who has no common sense and seeks to kill innocent people over their sexuality.

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            April 28, 2017 at 2:54 pm

            *deranged behavior

            Uh, ok? Did I say anything about executing people?

          • spyro20

            April 28, 2017 at 2:59 pm

            people who seek to kill innocent people are not innocent. get what i said memorized.

      • Joseph Singer

        April 28, 2017 at 8:35 am

        No, we kill the hatred.

    • Joseph Singer

      April 28, 2017 at 8:32 am

      Who says we take it for granted? I for one don’t; it’s something we must fight to keep.

      • lnm3921

        April 28, 2017 at 10:43 pm

        The people in our community organized to achieve marriage equality have all disbanded saying this is settled law and nothing to worry about anymore. HRC and other major GLBT organizations aren’t dedicating any resources to this anymore are they? But NOM hasn’t disbanded.

        It’s good that you have some sense! More in the community should!

        • Joseph Singer

          April 28, 2017 at 11:59 pm

          I suspect people in the organizations are keeping an ear to the ground in case it rears its ugly head again. However, they’re devoting most of their resources to other things.

  2. OldBut YoungMoney

    April 28, 2017 at 6:45 am

    You nutters seriously believe that “NOM” is a threat? That’s funny. They used to be big, and they were winning, now they’re nothing after the overpowered courts destroyed the will of millions unconstitutionally. There’s like maybe 200 people that march in this thing now and you people treat it as if it’s some well disciplined, well organized, well funded, serious opposition. It’s like a local church doing a march now, that’s it. You have no actual opposition anymore. You’ve gestapoed them all away with lies, hate, threats, harassment, and oppression; nice job.

    • Joseph Singer

      April 28, 2017 at 8:30 am

      If the will of millions is turning me into a second-class citizen by telling me I don’t have the same rights as everyone else, then the will of millions is wrong.

      • OldBut YoungMoney

        April 28, 2017 at 1:28 pm

        How are you, a man and that’s it, being made a second class citizen when society decides not to promote and subsidize sodomite behavior? Do tell.

        • spyro20

          April 28, 2017 at 1:33 pm

          thers no such thing as “sodomite” behavior sexuality overall is a natural thing.

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            April 28, 2017 at 1:33 pm

            It’s not natural. Sodomite behavior? Yes, there is such a thing. Do you know what sodomite means?

          • spyro20

            April 28, 2017 at 1:36 pm

            sodomite comes from a stupid religious term and it is natural, do the science, animals are known for engaging in certain behaviors for years, not to mention they are more civilized unlike humans who go unnecessarily overboard by killing someone over that. theres no difference between people who engage in a relationship regardless of gender.

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            April 28, 2017 at 1:51 pm

            There is a difference. The very fact that a male and female are two totally different things proves this. Yeah, and “science” two seconds ago, in the grand scheme of things, had it as a d-isorder. Furthermore, no, it’s not natural. You know what else animals “engage” in? P-edophilia, offspring a-bandonment, p-ederasty, p-olygamy, b-estiality, m-urder, t-hievery, c-annibalism, r-ape, t-orture, eating of one’s offspring, m-urder of ones own offspring, I-ncest, n-ecrophilia, and a slew of other otherwise d-e r a n g e d things. So, you want to keep talking about what’s “documented” among animals? Yeah, didn’t think so.

          • spyro20

            April 28, 2017 at 1:55 pm

            it’s so funny how animals do the same thing compared to us one thing thats not natural is religion since animals don’t display any odd behaviors of worshiping a being that doesn’t possibly exist. sexuality and relationships is a natural thing, you just have a mentality like a child who would find adults showing affection as gross when it’s not until you understand it yourself, not that i’m saying you should be gay, but until you study and understand nature more you’d understand, cause right now you don’t, and i’m not even gay for all you know.

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            April 28, 2017 at 2:00 pm

            Yeah, that’s because human beings are different than animals (yes, scientifically we are animals too, but you know what I mean when I say that). We are much much smarter than the uncivilized deranged unreasonable beast. No, I have the mentality of a person who likes women and thinks sodomite conduct is repulsive. I also have the mentality of literally 5 seconds ago, just the other day it seems, in the USA. “Gay” truly means happy before it was bastardized. Stop speaking in euphemisms to me.

          • spyro20

            April 28, 2017 at 2:04 pm

            for your information you don’t even understand the whole mentality of humans, there are thousands of people regardless of gender who is naturally attracted to people of the same gender in common and there is obviously no difference, you’re more like a person who is against things people have in common thats different from you, i’m a person who likes vegetables just like other people but you don’t so you decide that you should get rid of vegetables and/or people who like them, now THAT right there is uncivilized and idiotic.

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            April 28, 2017 at 2:08 pm

            *Unnaturally attracted

            So you’re comparing this to vegetables. Lol. That’s not convincing, sorry. Furthermore, btw, not sure how I’ve used religion as an argument. So besides me saying sodomite, why did you bring up religion? Or was it strictly because I said sodomite? Because all of what I’ve said so far, like opposition to sodomite “marriage” or what ELSE is also “found” in animal kingdom as well, did not necessarily come from religion.

          • spyro20

            April 28, 2017 at 2:14 pm

            like i said sodomite is a religious term where do you think the word “sodom” comes from? you use a word but don’t even know the origins of it’s true meanings. also how is something so personal such as homosexuality a bother to you? cause i’m sure where ever you go theres a gay person you pass by and they are just ordinary normal people living their lives like you, and to have such an unnecessary, vile evil mentality to hurt people of such is just inhumane. i despise people who are like that, anyone who is like that has a mental disorder cause something personal such as sexuality should not be bothering you at all but you’re making it turn out to be that way for no reason. people like you need to wise up.

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            April 28, 2017 at 2:17 pm

            No, I know the origins. I just refuse to say “gay” is all. Actually, sodomite behavior is not something I like. It’s repulsive. That alone makes me not like it. Not only that, sodomite behavior, and sodomites in general, is not good. It’s a plague upon humanity in numerous ways. Shall I list them for you? Btw, did you know Stalin was against the sodomites, no religion required.

          • spyro20

            April 28, 2017 at 2:21 pm

            stalin is one person has not everybody and hes not the creator of sexuality, just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean everyone shouldn’t like it. you have people who are heterosexual like you and me yet they have respect and understand the other side, some people were also gay but then realized they were hetero but also understands from the other side. thats why YOU need to understand as well, cause obviously theres nothing wrong with people being in the same relationship.

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            April 28, 2017 at 2:24 pm

            “Heterosexual”, aka people who are not perverse. What you call “hetero” I call simply what’s natural and our default. Anything other than our default is something known as a deviation. What possible reason should I not be against sodomite “marriage” for? Tell me, how are you, a man and that’s it, being made a second class citizen when society decides not to promote and subsidize sodomite behavior?

          • spyro20

            April 28, 2017 at 2:31 pm

            define perverse, there are people who are born and is not taught to be gay until they realize it for themselves. marriage is a bond between two people, and as far as legal documentation goes, theres nothing wrong with that either, i was once against gay marriage because of a religious perspective, but when i gave it thought thinking about the settings in that, i realized that there was nothing different compared to two heterosexuals marrying, it’s like having roommates of the same gender living together, whats the problem? – none.

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            April 28, 2017 at 2:39 pm

            Perverse being anything other than our default. You didn’t really answer the question. What reason does the government have to subsidize sodomite behavior? What possible reason does it have to subsidize and promote a benefitless behavior? Furthermore, no, government sanctioned marriage is not a bond, it’s government promotion and subsidization of a relationship. Don’t you know what sodomite “marriage” is? It’s government subsidization of sodomite behavior that does absolutely nothing for society and that actually harms it. You did not give it a lot of thought, you went right along with the crowd from what it seems after it was crammed down our throats by the liberals in every way they could. You also didn’t address how anyone is being made second class.

          • spyro20

            April 28, 2017 at 2:42 pm

            let me ask you this, do you believe in a god of some sort? cause normally no ordinary person whos not religious would not use the words “sodomite” and “perverse” also, no one owns people and the world, you and i are not in charge of how things were supposed to be from the beginning since we don’t know who or what was entirely responsible for anything, though like the animals, they are just as civilized and don’t start wars as far as i know or kill species of their own kind on a full scale for selfish reasons.

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            April 28, 2017 at 2:46 pm

            Stalin did. In fact, all of Russia did at a time, in regards to perverse. I think there have been quite a few Godless types and societies against it. Cuba was another example. I think the dictator, Castro, said a sodomite couldn’t be a true revolutionary or something to that effect. Do I believe in a God? Yeah. But even if I didn’t, I could still say all that I have and I would still be against the perverse.

          • spyro20

            April 28, 2017 at 2:49 pm

            have common sense, russia and cuba is not the entire world nor do they own it? did they create the earth and all living things? – no. also, if you believe in a god why were you trying to cover up on my mentioning of religion earlier? unless your religion is a bunch of crap which it is.

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            April 28, 2017 at 2:53 pm

            I never said they were. I was just pointing out that they were against it, no religion required. Actually, I wasn’t covering up being religious. I’m religious, yes. But I would still be against sodomites like Stalin and Russia and Castro and Cuba were even if was Godless.

          • spyro20

            April 28, 2017 at 2:58 pm

            so just because someone is against something you should follow their ideals? thats like saying you’d follow a person to do things that could get you killed which goes to say you don’t care about yourself, be a doer not a follower. you think before you act, just because those people are against something doesn’t mean you should too, right now you’re making them as the main creators of the world when they are obviously not, YOU are your own person and is smart to think for yourself unless you’re just dumb.

          • OldBut YoungMoney

            April 28, 2017 at 2:59 pm

            No, my point is that religion isn’t required to be against it. They were just examples. I’m not a communist if that’s what you think… lol.

          • spyro20

            April 28, 2017 at 3:06 pm

            religion is not even natural and it’s the same thing as i just said, if god was against such things why allow people to live on the earth for decades to be as such? origins of religion comes from people who tried to find the meaning of life when there was and isnt any answer to such? they also used it as ways to conduct order since humans were so uncivilized during ancient times as each rule was reconstructed over and over again till a certain system was established to create some sort of balance through their own ideals. but yet, people still have the freewill to do what they want, it’s in our nature, each person’s perspective is different which is why i said just because a person is against something doesn’t mean you should follow what they go by, think for yourself and see what you personally think is right and wrong. a person could say is right to hurt/kill someone whos different from them but is it REALLY right/necessary to do so?

          • Joseph Singer

            April 29, 2017 at 12:54 am

            ” We, the majority of society, are telling you that your feelings are worthless, perverse, and of no account. Only our beliefs matter; what’s in your heart is of no consequence, and worth less than nothing.” Sounds like second-class citizenship.and devaluation to me.

      • BigGaySteve

        May 1, 2017 at 7:08 pm

        Do you not see the problem that we couldn’t get gay alimony
        anywhere in the US except by gay/jewish judges? We couldn’t even get it in CA a solid democrat state. The right is making a big deal that all the judges that are blocking Trump are gay jew “ fake-americans”. Fighting for trannies in little girls bathrooms during an election year is one of the reasons Trump won.

        Look at the boy scouts, they won the supreme court in 2000,
        but people in scouts now talk about how 1000+ jewish lawyers forced them to take trannies. These are retired men who you can’t call HR on. For every scout leader that embraces gay kids, there are 2 that would probably throw jews into ovens if they could get away with it.

        • Joseph Singer

          May 1, 2017 at 7:28 pm

          I’m a tad confused. Of course I see the problem; people are trying to take away our rights again and we must fight for them. But are you saying that we shouldn’t have fought for the rights of our trans brothers and sisters simply because it might upset some people who might try to take away our right to marriage again? Could you enjoy the marriage rights you have now knowing that you’d left Trans people out in the cold? I doubt I could.

    • spyro20

      April 28, 2017 at 1:22 pm

      there are more people in the world whos a threat not just a small portion of people you fool.

      • OldBut YoungMoney

        April 28, 2017 at 1:29 pm

        Yes, there are MANY threats. That doesn’t mean we ignore some and go after others just because it’s your pet affliction so to speak.

  3. Larry W. Jones

    April 28, 2017 at 4:41 pm

    Oh, Goodie! Another chance for ignoramuses to self-identify. I hope their families and employers are paying attention.

  4. Kemwit Tall Tree

    May 1, 2017 at 11:19 pm

    I saw the sparse turn out last time and it was a complete joke. The event was mostly some Hispanic preachers yelling into megaphones sounding like Sabado Gigante!

    • Jess Mee

      May 25, 2017 at 12:06 am

      The attendance was small enough that there was an actual body count. 237 in attendance, including speakers, media people, protesters, passersby and babies.

  5. It Was Never Just 42

    June 17, 2017 at 9:18 pm

    So apparently a humungous crowd turned up for 2017’s little event. A whopping 47 people (including babies) – wow, keep on going NOM – keep on spitting in the face of progress. It’s so much fun seeing all your supporters literally throwing that donation money away…

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$2 million grant program to help LGBTQ restaurants, bars

Grubhub, National LGBT Chamber of Commerce to support small businesses



NGLCC, gay news, Washington Blade
Chance E. Mitchell and Justin G. Nelson of NGLCC announced the new grant program for restaurants and bars. (Blade file photo by Michael Key)

The National LGBT Chamber of Commerce and the global online food delivery company Grubhub announced on Sept. 22 that they have launched a $2 million grant program to provide financial support to struggling “LGBTQ+ owned and ally restaurants” adversely impacted by the COVID pandemic.

“America’s vulnerable LGBTQ+ owned restaurants and bars serving food will find a vital lifeline this fall stemming from the partnership formed by the National LGBT Chamber of Commerce (NGLCC) and Grubhub,” according to a joint statement they released. 

“These small business owners have been among the hardest hit by COVID impact with loss of jobs and income over the past two years,” the statement says.

It says the newly launched Community Impact Grant Program is inviting restaurants and bars that qualify for the program to submit applications for grants up until Oct. 12, 2021, the closing date for the applications. The grants are expected to range from $5,000 to $100,000, the statement says, with NGLCC and its more than 50 affiliated LGBT chambers across the country playing the lead role in selecting which restaurants or bars are awarded the grants.

In a separate statement in response to a question from the Washington Blade, NGLCC said an LGBTQ-owned establishment such as a gay bar would be eligible to apply for a grant under the program if they offer a menu for serving food.

“They do not need to be licensed as a restaurant specifically to be eligible for consideration,” NGLCC said.

Among the D.C. gay bars that would fall into that eligibility category are Pitchers and its attached lesbian bar A League of Her Own, Uproar, and Nellie’s Sports Bar. Freddie’s Beach Bar in Arlington, Va. would also be eligible.

In the same follow-up statement to the Blade, NGLCC said it will determine whether an applicant qualifies for a grant as an LGBTQ ally by evaluating “the restaurant’s clientele, reach, track record of support, and public benefit.”

The statement adds, “In our application online, we ask allies to share evidence of their LGBTQ+ community support such as nonprofit sponsorships or advertising in local LGBTQ+ media, among others. We know that our allies are an important foundation standing by their LGBTQ+ patrons, neighbors, and friends.”

The statement announcing the launching of the LGBTQ grant program says the funds for the grants will come from a charitable program Grubhub started in 2018 called Grubhub’s Donate the Change program. It says the program asks customers receiving food delivered by Grubhub to “round out their order total and donate the difference,” with Grubhub matching eligible donations from its Grubhub+ members.

It says NGLCC has set a goal to allocate 30 percent of the funds for the Community Impact Grant Program for LGBTQ-owned and ally-owned restaurants and bars to businesses owned by people of color and transgender and gender non-conforming individuals.

“We’re proud to partner with Grubhub offering these grants to support these businesses,” said Justin Nelson, co-founder and president of the NGLCC, who noted that LGBTQ-owned and allied restaurants were among those who “kept our communities and first responders fed throughout the pandemic.”

Added Nelson, “America’s 1.4 million LGBTQ+-owned business owners have shown incredible resilience during the COVID-19 pandemic, and now, in turn, we can help them recover stronger than ever.”

The National LGBT Chamber of Commerce describes itself as the business voice of the community and “the largest global advocacy organization specifically dedicated to expanding economic opportunities and advancements for LGBT people.”

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Roundup of cities hosting Pride events next month — and those that cancelled

Annapolis, Richmond among postponements in mid-Atlantic



Vice President Kamala Harris and her husband, the Second Gentleman Douglas Emhoff at D.C.’s Pride Walk in June. (Screenshot via WJLA 7)

Although organizers are closely watching COVID-19 related developments in their states, at least 15 outdoor, in-person LGBTQ Pride events were scheduled to take place across the U.S. in the fall of 2021, according to the international LGBTQ group InterPride and online announcements by organizers of the Pride events.

Cities in which the fall Pride events are scheduled to take place include D.C.; Fort Lauderdale; Palm Springs, Calif.; Las Vegas; Dover, Del.; and three small cities in Maryland.

The decision to move ahead with those events came shortly after Pride organizers in at least five cities announced they were cancelling their events for this fall due to concern over the COVID pandemic. Among them are Richmond, Va.; Annapolis, Md.; Atlanta; Louisville, Ky.; and San Francisco.

Organizers of a fall Pride event in Philadelphia also cancelled that event, originally set for Sept. 4. But the Philadelphia Gay News reports that the cancellation was not due to COVID but instead was due to objections by members of the community to the policies of the event’s organizers and a controversial public statement by one of the organizers considered by some to be derogatory to transgender people.

A statement announcing the cancellation of a San Francisco LGBTQ Pride Freedom Day Fest scheduled for Oct. 20 by its organizers appears to capture the sentiment of organizers of the other fall Pride events that were also cancelled.

“[W]e’ve determined that to produce a street fair with the safety and health of our communities at top priority, at the quality expected of SF Pride, is just not feasible this fall,” the statement says. “We are not cancelling – we’re merely postponing. Over the coming months, in addition to some new and returning fundraising events, we’re going to focus our energy on Pride 2022,” the statement continues.

“We remain as excited as we ever were to capture that spirit of wonder and look forward to bringing Freedom Day Fest to all of you in October 2022,” it says.

San Francisco Pride organizers noted that the fall Freedom Day Fest event was to be an addition to the city’s regularly scheduled Pride parade and festival that has taken place in June prior to the COVID outbreak but that were cancelled this year and last year. 

The Richmond Pride event, known as Virginia Pridefest, was scheduled to take place Sept. 25. The event, which was also cancelled last year due to COVID, has attracted tens of thousands of participants in previous years. 

“After consulting with our many corporate sponsors, organizational partners and volunteers we have decided it is in the best interest of the health and safety off our community to postpone VA Pridefest 2021,” organizers said in an Aug. 27 statement. “Our preparation puts us on solid footing as we postpone the festival to 2022 when we hope to hold it in June as part of the national observation of LGBTQ Pride Month,” the statement says. “This has long been a goal of ours, and this just may give us that opportunity,” it says.

Although organizers of Annapolis Pride cited COVID concerns as their reason for cancelling that event, which was scheduled for Oct. 30, activists in three smaller Maryland cities have chosen not to cancel their Pride events.

They include the Howard County Pride Festival scheduled for Oct. 9 in Columbia, Md.; the Upper Chesapeake Bay Pride Festival, also set for Oct. 9 in Havre De Grace, Md.; and Southern Maryland Pride scheduled for Oct. 16 in Solomons, Md.

Like D.C.’s Capital Pride Alliance, Pride organizers in Baltimore cancelled their traditional June Pride parade and festival for the second year in a row and instead held more than a dozen smaller events in June of this year, both in-person and virtual.

In Los Angeles, Christopher Street West, the group that organizes that city’s Pride events, including its annual Pride Parade which in pre-COVID years has attracted hundreds of thousands of participants, also cancelled this year’s parade for the second year in a row. Like other cities, the group held several virtual Pride events in June.

Los Angeles Blade Publisher Troy Masters organized a Pride Walk in June that attracted a few hundred participants in an effort, Masters said, to hold at least one in-person event to celebrate Pride during the traditional Pride Month in June.

A larger outdoor Pride event did take place in LA Aug. 27-29, called the DTLA Proud Festival, with “DT” referring to downtown LA.

Capital Pride Alliance, which organizes D.C.’s annual Pride parade and street festival that have attracted over 200,000 participants in pre-COVID times, held a scaled back Pride Walk and Pride celebration at D.C.’s Freedom Plaza in June. The group has scheduled an Oct. 17 Pride Street Fair and Block Party on 15th Street, N.W. between P and Q Streets that it’s calling Colorful Fest.

On its website, Capital Pride says those entering the block party, which will be in a fenced in area where alcohol will be served, will be required to show proof of COVID vaccination.

“The Capital Pride Alliance is committed to finding opportunities for the LGBTQ+ community to gather together safely, especially as the fall and winter seasons will soon make it more difficult to hold outdoor events and pandemic guidelines will make indoor events challenging,” Capital Pride Executive Director Ryan Bos told the Blade. “To that end, we are working closely with the DC Government and following all current COVID-19 guidelines to have a safe outdoor event,” Bos said.

The Louisville, Ky., Pride, which had been scheduled for Sept. 18, is among the Pride events cancelled this fall due to COVID concerns, according to its organizers. But a second Pride event held in Louisville each year called Kentuckiana Pride, will take place as planned on Oct. 8-9 with a parade and festival. 

Chad Eddings, the Kentuckiana Pride co-director, told the Blade the event would take place in an enclosed outdoor area and participants must show proof of vaccination or a recent negative COVID test as a requirement for admission. He said the event usually draws about 15,000 people.

Cities in which fall Pride events are still scheduled to take place or have already taken place include Burlington, Vt. (Sept. 5); Miami Beach, Fla. (Sept. 18-19); Columbus, Ind. (Sept. 18); North Texas Pride Festival in Plano, Tex. (Sept. 25); Delaware Pride in Dover (Oct. 2); South Florida Afro Pride Parade & Music Festival in Ft. Lauderdale (Oct. 7-11); Las Vegas Pride Parade & Festival (Oct. 8-9); D.C Pride Street Fair & Block Party (Oct. 17) Pacific Northwest Black Pride in Seattle, Wash. (Oct. 29-31); Phoenix Pride Festival & Parade in Phoenix, Ariz. (Nov. 6-7); Palm Springs, Calif., Pride (Nov. 1-7); and Fort Lauderdale, Fla., Pride Parade & Festival (Nov. 20).

InterPride, the LGBTQ organization that keeps track of Pride events “all over the world,” released the results of a survey it conducted of 201 worldwide Pride organizations to find out the type of Pride events they were planning for this year. The findings show that the largest number – 40.8 percent – reported they would be holding both in-person and virtual Pride events.

The findings show that 35.3 percent of the Pride organizations planned just in-person events this year; 19.9 percent planned only online or virtual events; and 4 percent either were not planning any events this year or had canceled their events.

The survey results released by InterPride did not breakdown the findings by specific countries.

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Andrew Sullivan doesn’t care what you think

Gay commentator talks new book, state of LGBTQ movement



Andrew Sullivan (Photo courtesy of Sullivan)

Andrew Sullivan, the gay conservative commentator known for his early advocacy of same-sex marriage and, more recently, for being a Trump critic, talked to the Washington Blade upon publication of his new book, “Out on a Limb.”

Among the wide-ranging topics he addressed: the AIDS movement’s place in the larger LGBTQ movement; the role of the LGBTQ community in cancel culture; the future for gay men in Afghanistan; and gay men’s attention to fitness and the new role for gyms.

The full interview, which took place by phone on Sept. 13, follows:

Washington Blade: “Out on a Limb” is a collection of your writings, from the past 30 years. Can you tell me a little bit about what the process was for selecting which of those writings should go in this book, and in looking back at them if anything jumped out at you?

Andrew Sullivan: Oh, it was a nightmare process because I’ve written ridiculous amounts of words over the 32 years. And I couldn’t have done it without help from interns and friends, and especially my colleague Chris Bodenner, who trolled through a lot. And I don’t like reading my own pieces after they’ve been published. I don’t know I have a writer’s allergy to it. So I have to say it was kind of agonizing to go through everything all over again. And then last summer I just went through with a couple of other people just try to get some objective take on it because you’re far too close to make it your own, so it took a long time to sort out which was which, and we had to throw out a lot. But in the end I tried to make it so that there are pieces from almost every single year, so it spans, evenly the period that has a multiplicity of topics. And the ones that I think I’m sort of proudest of or that help portray exactly where I’m coming from.

And one of the frustrations of living in the Twitter world is that you can get defined by one sentence you wrote, 25 years ago, and they just hammer that on you and it’s hard for you to show that your work is actually different than that. You’re not the caricature. And so, One way to do that is just simply publish your work and have people look at it and make up their own minds.

Blade: Right. Well, looking at the book and looking at some of the early essays — I mean I’m an avid reader of your column in recent years, but some of the stuff is written before that when I was much younger. One that really jumped out at me was the prevalence of the AIDS epidemic, and its impact on the gay community in the the height of the epidemic in the in the 80s in the in the early 90s. I’d like to ask you to kind of bring that to the present, like, how do you think our approach to the coronavirus compares to our approach to HIV/AIDS back then?

Sullivan: I think one of the things you notice is that there are many similar themes in all sorts of different plagues through history. There’s denial that it’s happening, there are crackpot theories about what’s going on. It tends to divide people who have the virus from people who don’t have the virus. It creates a sense of anxiety, obviously. In all those things, it’s quite similar and often the government bureaucracy is also lumbering. It’s also true that in this case, as with HIV in the end, it was the pharmaceutical companies that gave us the real breakthroughs to actually manage it.

So, more similar in many ways than you might think, but obviously, the differences are huge too and as much as HIV was concentrated so much in a small and separate — in some ways — community and its fatality rate was for a long time, not point-one percent, but 100 percent. It killed everyone, and also it was so selective in its killing that other people could avoid it, or not even notice it or have it be going on around them without even seeing it. And so obviously, it was — for my generation — it was a defining event, quite obviously and I think it’s immeshment with the rebirth of the gay rights movement in the 1990s is absolutely part of the story. I really don’t believe that you could tell the story of gay civil rights in the 90s and 2000s without telling the story of AIDS. I don’t think it would have happened the same way or even at all without that epidemic.

And you know, those early pieces written about in New York and Washington in the 1990s or thereafter are pretty brutal. I mean, I tried to convey what it really was like. I mean, one thing I try and tell kids today is that, imagine the current Blade, which is not as thick or as big as the old Blade, but the Blade you had would be just about enough to contain the weekly obits that used to run each week. And I don’t think those who didn’t live through that will ever understand that. But I hope maybe, with some of the essays in this book, they’ll see a little bit more about what we went through and how we managed to construct arguments for equality in the middle of really staggering loss and pain and fear.

Blade: And yeah, I’ve looked through some of our archival material and definitely the obituaries were a key component if not almost the center of the Washington Blade throughout the AIDS epidemic.

Sullivan: They were. And you know because we were much a closer community then, because this was before apps, this was before social acceptance. We tended to know everyone, because we met and socialized in the bars and clubs and in the gyms and the parks, and so it was terrifying how many of the faces that you saw in those obits you knew, even if you didn’t know them as friends, as many of us did, you knew them as faces in the bar, and to watch them all be struck down in such numbers was obviously a formative event for all of us, those of us who were, where I am, which is I’m late 50s now, we really experienced something unique. Many of the people we experienced it with are gone. And I think there’s often a sense of incomprehension that the younger generation really doesn’t understand what happened, and worse, really doesn’t care.

Blade: Really doesn’t care? I mean, that’s a very strong statement. What are you basing that on?

Sullivan: The lack of any discussion of it, any memory of it, anyone under the age of 30 ever asking me, or anyone who lived through it, what it was like. I mean, you tell me where the memory of it is held. Am I missing something?

Blade: The memory, if you’re speaking of just public discussion, even within the gay community, I think it is very faded.

Sullivan: It’s almost as if it didn’t happen. This is quite common, you know, with plagues, too. Like the 1918 plague was disappeared in the memory hole, very quickly.

But this was such a traumatizing event for so many of us. Now, the truth is, most other communities have children, and they tell their children and that’s how the memories — for example the Holocaust or even the Vietnam War and other things — are perpetuated. We have no — by and large we don’t have kids and we don’t tell them those stories. And so each generation is afresh and they do see it as something that happened. I don’t think they’re not aware of it, but it’s certainly not something that’s a particular interest, I think, to most young gay men.

Blade: It’s certainly very sobering to read those essays in the book that depict what’s going on at the height of the AIDS epidemic at that time.

Sullivan: I obviously tried to air some internal laundry, as it were. I tried to talk about things that other people didn’t want to talk about, and of course that got me into trouble. But I think the essays stand up.

Blade: I feel almost awkward asking you this next question because it has very much to do with talking about the present of what’s happening in the in the gay rights movement, but you did bring up civil rights — how that animated the gay movement in the 90s in the early days, and now the situation with the Human Rights Campaign president being terminated after being ensnared in the report on the Cuomo affair, and a public dispute with the board. I want to ask you how representative do you think that situation is of the LGBTQ movement?

Sullivan: Well I would say this: I do think it’s simply a fact that the core civil rights ambitions of all of us have been realized. It’s almost entirely done. These groups are desperately searching for things to do. But since gay people and transgender people are now protected under the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which is as a strong a protection as you can get, and since we can marry one another anywhere in the country and since we can serve our country in the military, they’ve really not got much left. So of course, they start entering into different areas like the issue of race, or the issue of gender or sexual harassment. And this is just a desperate attempt to stay relevant in some way. There’s no reason for them, I don’t think, to really function the way they functioned before. The movement is done, and I think a lot of people understand that, which is why maybe one of the underlying reasons why Mr. David disappeared is because membership income has plummeted, as I understand it.

And also, I think this is a sense in which the current mainstream — what I would call the alphabet movement people, the LGBTQRSTVWXYZ people — they don’t represent most gay men and women, and lesbians or even, I don’t think, a lot of trans people. And I think it’s certainly not a gay rights movement at this point. I think gay men are a complete afterthought. So, I just think it’s a function of — it’s the price of success is catastrophic success. Let’s put it that way. And you know, once you’ve achieved your things, you should shut down and move on. And they have to keep inventing and creating new senses of crisis of massive discrimination or huge waves of alleged trans genocide resources. This is all completely fanciful, and not related to actual reality, and those of us who actually went through some serious shit can see what is unserious about this.

Blade: I think a lot of our readers are probably going to point out these transgender women are being forced into these dangerous situations to make a living and because of that they are suffering violence.

Sullivan: Yes. That is true and awful, obviously. But is it an epidemic? No. Is the murder rate higher for that group and other groups in society? So far as we can analyze that, no.

I don’t know what the solution is to the other thing, and how do we help trans people not be forced into those horribly dangerous situations. That’s what we should definitely consider — how we as a community could help avoid that. But I don’t see what an organization is going to do about it except raise money off it.

Blade: What if we’ve experienced catastrophic success as you say in the moment, I was going ask you what qualities we should be looking for in the next Human Rights Campaign president, but maybe —

Sullivan: I don’t think there should be one. I think somebody will wind it down is what I would hope for. I know that’s going to get people nuts, going to send people nuts, but no, what are their goals now, what are they really fighting for? What measures do they want us to pass? That’s what I want to know, except for this Equality Act, which most of which has already been done. I mean, we were told in the 80s that they wanted to have this ENDA. I mean, it’s been going on forever. And we were told in the 90s we should put off marriage equality. Remember, HRC was against it for the first 10 years on the grounds it would upset the Democrats and the Clintons. We should wait, because only the employment discrimination issue really matters, and here we are 30 years later and they’re still pushing the same bill except it doesn’t have anything else in it because most of it’s already been done by the Supreme Court. So, it has to turn itself into an organization that’s supporting, for example, a group like Black trans people, and again, the question is, what does that mean, supporting them? What does it mean? I don’t know what it means, except their ability to raise money.

Blade: That kind of brings me to the next question: I know you’ve said many times that the gay rights movement is over, but what about the —

Sullivan: It’s not over as such, I mean obviously we have to be vigilant about the gains we’ve made and we have to be clear that we rebut lies. There’s still work to be done within our own community to each other. So I don’t mean that’s over, but the idea that we are trying to advance core civil rights, we have got them. You’ve got to learn to take “yes” for an answer.

Blade: The question I want to pose, if that is the case that we have our core civil rights, what about the gay press? Do you think there’s still a role for the gay press or are you just simply humoring me by doing this interview?

Sullivan: No, obviously. There’s press for almost every community in the world, and so absolutely, yes. There are issues that come up, all sorts of questions that we have to discuss from our businesses, to our clubs, to our bars to our culture. I mean, for example, we need coverage of the meth epidemic that is, in my view by far, the biggest crisis facing gay men right now, and which you almost never hear discussed in the gay press or in the gay rights organizations. And yet, that is, I fear, a huge crisis for us, killing God knows how many men. And the gay press has a role in bringing that to light, and opening a discussion of that and helping us find solutions to that. So, there always will be a need for a gay press.

Blade: And in some ways, for the gay press I would say that that makes things, there’s advantages and disadvantages to that. Advantages in that it’s a well-defined niche and disadvantages in the fact that it has to compete more with mainstream publications.

Sullivan: Yes. You didn’t use to. I mean, you used to be the only place to get any bloody news about the gay community, now you can’t get through the pages of the New York Times without being told something new about some part of our world, excessively so I might think. Come on, it gets kind of crazy at times.

Blade: Is there an example of something you think was crazy that you saw recently?

Sullivan: Well I think you know the way the New York Times covered Pride for weeks on end. I mean, at some point, you’re just like enough already.

Blade: I want to talk about Afghanistan, I was reading one of your recent columns before you went on vacation, about the rightness of that war finally coming to an end because it was — I think you call it the most pointless war that America has ever fought. That’s not the exact quote, but something along those lines. And in that column, you do acknowledge there are situations that this withdrawal has had an impact on. You go through a list, and one of them is gay men who would be executed in Afghanistan under Taliban rule. So, if you welcome this withdrawal, what about the consequences for a gay man in Afghanistan?

Sullivan: It’s horrifying. And in my view, we should be doing better at focusing on the gay people who are truly oppressed in the world, and they’re in brutal regimes, often with no political rights, not just in Eastern Europe, Poland, the Middle East and Africa. These are people gay people who are really, really up against the wall in many places. And I think we need to be very aggressive in helping many of them who are really beleaguered get asylum. I was on the board of Immigration Equality for quite a long time. And I’m very proud of the work Immigration Equality does on the asylum question, but I think we’ve learned we can’t occupy half the world to try and defend gay rights. It’s a wildly impractical move. We can highlight their plight, we can help some escape, but we can’t occupy the world and make it better for gay people, I’m afraid.

We have made enormous progress, but you only have to think about what’s happening in Poland or Hungary, or the Muslim world, or Afghanistan or Iran or even places obviously in Africa to to see we have a huge amount of work to do, and I wish you would focus on them now and be a beacon for them and to help them but I don’t think you do that by force of arms. … There are limits to what we can do and there were terrible consequences for overreaching those limits.

Blade: You said there is work to be done to help these people and you mentioned asylum as being one option, but is that all there is? What will this work look like?

Sullivan: Well I think we can help fund groups and organizations. I think people in this country will be happy to help, I certainly think it would be worth helping more than it would be sending money to the Human Rights Campaign. So, yes, I think I mean different ways you can — you can support Immigration Equality, for example, which does the legal work for asylum cases. Incredibly important. Wins almost every single one. Reach out to people who are in those places and communicate with them and support them. There are groups that help with money and help with just morale.

Blade: Speaking more generally about the concept of American intervention overseas to advance democracy, you’ve gone through a transformation on your view. You’ve talked quite a bit about your regret for supporting for the Iraq war. Was there a pivotal moment for you when you changed your view on this, or was it something that was more of a gradual evolution?

Sullivan: It wasn’t that gradual because the evidence of the failure of the war was almost immediate. So it did happen quite quickly, but for me, obviously the emergence that we were torturing prisoners was a complete deal breaker for me that many of us supported foolishly but with good intentions, we wanted to prevent and stop this murderous monster, Saddam, from torturing and killing people. And when we tried to remove him, ended up torturing people, you have a classic irony, and one that we have to repudiate …

One of the things that I do, when I think about the gay stuff is that — I don’t want to toot my own horn — but in the 90s, there was a handful of us supporting marriage equality. And these pieces in the book are the key building blocks of the argument in the 90s, and I think there is something of value in the history of seeing how we crafted those arguments, how we made a liberal argument, how we brought in conservatives, how we talked openly and debated openly with our opponents.

I mean, I did an anthology that included all the views against marriage equality. I did my own pieces but I also published Maggie Gallagher and Bill Bennett, for example. And I think that’s, that’s a part of the history that has been missed.

The 90s were the time when we formulated, honed, finessed the arguments, despite opposition from the gay rights establishment. I think we crafted successful arguments that went on to win. And that’s a really crucial thing, and there was only a handful of us that was doing that at the time. And so, I’m really proud of that legacy in this book. These are the arguments that help give us marriage equality, and it required reframing the gay rights movement around the question of our humanity, our common ground with straight people with formal legal equality, and has absolutely nothing to do with wokeness, or with attacking people for being bigots, or all the anger energy that is today aimed at demonizing your opponents. We attempted to persuade our opponents, not demonize them.

Andrew Sullivan in 1991. (Blade archive photo by Doug Hinckle)

Blade: That wonderfully brings me to my next question because I was going to ask you, with the marriage victory six years ago now — in essence was that a restructuring of marriage, an institution that has been around for as long as almost probably humanity has been around. I’m just wondering if the restructuring of that institution played a role in contributing to the emergence of woke ideology that we’re seeing now.

Sullivan: I don’t think so. Most of the people that are now in the throes of woke ideology really were not interested in marriage equality and were completely absent in the campaign. They were also absent in the campaign for military service, because the people running the gay rights movement today, didn’t like marriage as an institution. They wanted to end it, and they opposed the military as a militaristic and an enemy institution, just as today’s extremists also oppose gay cops. So I don’t think that. I do think, however, that having won core ramparts for our civil rights, they had to find something else to do and screaming at straight people, and at cis people seems to be the new mode. I don’t think it helps anyone the way this campaign is currently being conducted nothing some of the extremist elements in trans ideology, are setting back the image and rights and dignity of gay people and trans people for that matter.

Blade: ‘Woke ideology’ is also very closely associated with the emergence of cancel culture. If you think, not too long ago, being gay would get you cancelled though it was not, the concept wasn’t exactly those words. For example, I think Billie Jean King, when she was either outed and came out as lesbian, and as a tennis player, she lost all of her sponsorships. This is years ago. It was so shocking at the time. Is there a special role for the gay community in addressing cancel culture and to what degree do you think we’re fulfilling it or not, or even contributing to it?

Sullivan: I’ve lived it. I’ve been canceled by virtually every faction. I, my first book of marriage equality was picketed by the Lesbian Avengers, when I went to bookstores. Gay left activists tried to cancel me by publishing my personal ad, trying to accuse me of spreading AIDS, which was an unbelievable lie. I’ve had glasses thrown at me by gay rights activists, but I was also cancelled by the right when I stood up for us, and also oppose aspects of the war and of the Republican Party, and I’ve been one of the strongest critics of the Republican Party in this millennium that you can find. So I think if the alphabet people have their druthers, they would get me canceled today. They just can’t, because I’m now independent, and they can’t pressure advertisers or editors to fire people for the wrong views. But that some elements look to cancel people who help pioneer a lot of gay rights in the modern era strikes me as not exactly productive.

If you’re cancelled by the left or the right somewhat continuously, you only have to go back to your core supporters your core readers, and the general public, and that’s what Substack has enabled me to do, though it’s what also the original Daily Dish did. I’m not sure without those I would have been able to really keep up the fight in the 2000s for marriage equality, for example.

Blade: This animosity that you’ve experienced both on the right and the left, having glasses thrown at you, having your personal ad doxxed as it were — given your contributions to the gay rights movement, has that reaction surprised you?

Sullivan: No. Not really. I think that, look, divisions in arguments within the community are are healthy, not unhealthy. And I think, for reasons I didn’t choose, I became a very prominent gay person in the 90s, just by virtue of the fact that I was out from the get-go, first generation to be out from the get go, and when I became editor of the New Republic, I was the only openly gay journalist in the mainstream media in Washington or New York. I know that sounds insane, but it’s true. I was it. Who else were they going to talk to? And so, inevitably, I came, in ways that I never intended, to represent gay people but I never said that. I said that I only represent myself. I have no claim to represent anybody else, but that’s not the way the media works and I think people were enraged by that, and enraged when I said things that were not totally party-line. …

This is very common in minority communities where, you know, there’s a tall poppy syndrome where someone emerges and seeks to represent people, they have to be cut down pretty quickly. So part of that’s inevitable and certainly during the 90s and early 2000s, especially in the 90s dealing with AIDS, you can see why people were desperate and angry, and didn’t want any, any of the slightest internal debate. So I understand that. However, the cruelty of some of it. The viciousness of some of it. The real core homophobia, involved in it. I mean, how homophobic is it to find someone’s personal ad is blasted out to smear that person. That’s been done to gay men forever but it was done by gay activists against a gay man. There’s some deep ugliness out there, and it comes from frustration. It comes obviously from a sense of people’s own histories of being beleaguered and having their dignity removed. It comes from a sense of helplessness, comes from a sense of not having your own voice. So all that’s understandable. I just think people could have been a little less, and could still be, a little less personal and vicious about it toward other people.

Blade: I want to go back to marriage equality and win six years ago. Are there any consequences of that decision that you did not foresee?

Sullivan: I don’t think I foresaw that, once all these main achievements were won, that the gay rights movement would radicalize so quickly into something extremely left wing. That I didn’t fully anticipate. I thought the successes would probably help calm things down. We could move on to other issues we needed to resolve or need to be tackled. But essentially, I didn’t see the emergence of this hugely intolerant and ideologically extreme version of — it isn’t even gay rights anymore because this stuff is hostile, even for categories like homosexuality once you destroy categories all of sex, gender and sexual orientation, which means that gayness is on the chopping block for these people as well. They’re essentially in favor of dismantling our society. And I don’t think most gay men and lesbians actually want to dismantle our society. I think they want to make it better. I think they want to make it more humane. I think they want to make it more just. But I don’t think they want to dismantle the concept for example of biological sex. I don’t think they want to dismantle the concept of homosexuality, which is attraction to people of the same sex. And I think eventually gay people are going to wake up and realize this movement really is about the dismantling of homosexuality.

Andrew Sullivan speaks at the CATO Institute in 2010. (Blade file photo by Michael Key)

Blade: Building off of what you said about the tall poppy syndrome in the gay community, which you experienced, let’s look at that for a different community and that is Caitlyn Jenner within the transgender community in her run for governor. She’s arguably the most prominent transgender figure in recent months, even though many people in the transgender movement abhor that. Given what Caitlyn Jenner has done, do you think the transgender community owes a sort of thanks for bringing visibility to a different audience?

Sullivan: I think, you know, in the old days, our view was this: We always seek converts; we’re not seeking heretics. If you want more people to join you, you’re prepared to accept support from anywhere on your core issues. And if you do that, if you have open arms and a big tent and say, ‘Yeah. You agree with us on this, then we’re delighted to have you on our side.” That’s what did with marriage. Now, the people who want to be with you have to be subjected to these incredible ideological litmus tests. They have to be parsed and they have to be shredded, often, in their reputations.

Now, I’m not a supporter of Caitlyn Jenner. To be honest with you, I’m more of the “South Park” view of Caitlyn Jenner, but what the fuck? She is out there, she did help raise visibility for trans people. In the end, if you want to win and if you want to persuade people, you want as many different views representing you as possible, and so it’s a good thing if there are gay Republicans, a good thing that there are trans Republicans, a good thing that we can appeal to more people. We now have the majority of Republicans supporting marriage equality. When I started out that was unbelievable. So it’s — what I feel is that we’re stuck in a movement that’s really about finding enemies, destroying leaders and consumed with resentment and anger, and those kinds of movements are not only not very pretty, but they don’t often succeed.

Blade: And you see that being applied with Caitlyn Jenner in the transgender community?

Sullivan: Well, yeah. I think the minute you say something even slightly off accepted orthodox, they want you destroyed.

There are lots and lots of Americans who support trans rights if you are not convinced the biological sex doesn’t exist. There are compromises here.

Blade: I want to ask a couple of general questions. With what we’re seeing now, has Biden been living up to your expectations as president?

Sullivan: Pretty much, to be honest I wasn’t hugely — I was the “anyone but Trump” person. And I thought of the candidates, I thought Biden was the most plausible. I actually argued that he would be the best candidate a couple years ago. It’s in the book.

I think that’s all I’d say, except he’s turned out to be much more left in domestic policy than a lot of people — a lot of people realize, although I certainly expected it.

Blade: OK give me an example of that.

Sullivan: In enacting government-wide race and sex discrimination policies, making hiring and firing in the federal government, dependent upon your race and sex, sexual orientation or gender roles, as opposed to can you do that job or not?

Blade: I guess I don’t know the specific initiative. You’re talking about the executive order implementing Bostock?

Sullivan: The equity initiative across the — run by Susan Rice. With every government department, they have to make sure that they’re discriminating against certain race and sex in order to get the balance right.

Blade: What about Trump? Have you reevaluated anything about him since he left office?

Sullivan: I think my basic initial feeling about him remains, that he’s just out of his mind. There’s no way this person is a rational or credible person who belongs in human society. He’s a completely crazy person. And that’s fundamentally the problem, but he’s also a brilliant demagogue. I’m still worried about him.

Blade: What does that worry entail?

Sullivan: That he can come back and be president. That’s what I’m worried about. Obviously, it’s too soon to say, but the way in which he and increasingly his party treats the Constitution as if it is a game to be rigged as opposed to a set of rules we all agree to — really, really, unnerving deeply undemocratic, authoritarian impulse.

Blade: I also want to ask you — It might be uncomfortable, crossing boundaries here, but I’m just going to have at it because I’ve seen you at VIDA gym, quite a few times and it looks like you try to keep yourself in good physical shape. Is that something that you’ve always been attentive to, exercise? I’m just kind of curious because I think a lot of our readers are attentive to it too, so I’m just kind of wondering what if you could talk describe your experience with it.

Sullivan: Look, being gay — yeah, I think it’s part of — I’ve done weight training forever and ever and ever. And, you know, it’s good for you, especially as you get older. For me, it’s a way of taking my mind off everything else that’s in my head, and working out for an hour — I try to with a trainer — can be just mentally reviving, because it gets my mind off its usual patterns. I’ve been a bit of a bodybuilder in a way. It’s gone up and down, or whatever. It depends on — COVID was obviously a huge blow to it. Yeah, you know, it’s just how I live. It’s been like that forever, and the gym is also, I think become an important — with the collapse of gay bars, it’s become an important social institution more than it used to be, actually.

Blade: Do you mean in the way that it fosters a sense of networking and community?

Sullivan: Well, you know, it’s where you saw me, where you can, you know — the way that we used to more often in clubs and bars. … It is an important social institution as well as a fitness place. Sometimes VIDA U Street is incredibly intimidating, because there’s unbelievably huge and beautiful men there, and you always start finding yourself feeling puny in comparison.

Blade: Yeah, tell me about it.

Sullivan: That’s the arms race, you know, that’s men’s function of being a man more than being gay, I think. It’s just men are triggered by more superficial bodily attraction than women, and we are better able to — for good or ill — to dissociate the person from the body as it were. And so, where we’re competing with each other, you know, it’s a death race, really.

Blade: That was going to bring me to my next question because I was going ask you if you think gay men are paying too much attention to their physical bodies, to physical fitness.

Sullivan: I can’t judge anybody. I think it all depends on how you want to live your life and I don’t think it’s a problem as long as it’s healthy. I mean, it’s better than other things you could do with your life. But yes I think insofar as we have unbelievably exacting standards of physical beauty, and we punish people we don’t — or really isolate or marginalize people that don’t live up to them, you see groups of friends in the gay community — you see it here in Provincetown a lot — where it’s surprising how they all have the same level of handsomeness or beauty. There’s not a mix. I mean in the classic sense of beauty: big arms, big chest, you know, blah blah blah. And, that is, I think there’s a slight cruelty to some of that sometimes.

I think the bear world has helped a lot, as it were, soften that, literally, figuratively. You have a piece about bears in the book. But look, a beautiful man is a beautiful man. I mean there’s a reason you go to VIDA also because they’re fucking beautiful and extremely attractive, and no gay man should oppose that. It’s just that when we cross one another, sometimes we’re terribly cruel to each other.

Blade: Is that a function of being a man or a function of being gay?

Sullivan: It’s a function of being a man in a world where there are no women to check it because all the incentives are there. You’re just catering to your own — the thing about that is that we do it ourselves all the time. But yes, it does matter, in the gay world, if you’ve got a nice body, right?

And it’s not fair, yes. But it’s sometimes you just got to hack it. But then there’s always people out there who don’t like that, and we’re not used to that and plenty of life outside the gym, people have different ways of coming together, whether it be book clubs or just hanging out in the same bar or cafe, or the sports teams and so on and so forth. The range of gay life is so much larger than it used to be, which is so wonderful.

And that’s also in the book, too, the end of gay culture. I would say this: This book is really the story of someone in my generation, going from the 80s to today, the 2020s, the 80s to the 20s basically. We experienced something that no gay generation has ever experienced before or will ever experience again. We lived through the most exhilarating period of advances in gay dignity, rights and visibility. At the same time as we went through a viral catastrophe, and that combination of thrill and terror, you can hear it in the dance music at the time. This incredible high energy disco music with lyrics that would make you slit your wrists, with lyrics of great darkness and sadness. You hear it in Pet Shop Boys, particularly, Eurasia, all those synthpop energizing bands of the 80s and 90s.

Andrew Sullivan on ‘Real Time with Bill Maher.’ (Screen capture via HBO)
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